Curse

Elttil · Jun 15, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I recently won a free copy of Nightfall (woohoo!) so have been reading about Guild Wars and am excited to try it out. Unfortunately, I have an outdated PC and as expected I can't run GW. The main problem is my video card -- Matrox Millenium G400 -- won't cut it. However, before I drop some cash on a new video card, I'm wondering if my PC will run GW adequately. It's a dual CPU 866Mhz P3 with 512MB RAM. The minimum for Nightfall is a 1Ghz P3 so I'm wondering if having 2 CPUs will make up for the slower processor speed. Many apps won't take advantage of having 2 CPUs, and if that's true for GW then I'd be wasting money getting a new video card if the processor can't handle the game.

I don't expect to run GW in super high resolution with all details turned on, but I don't really want to be using the lowest resolution with all details at their minimal setting or turned off. I guess I'm wondering how much the game will be affected by the CPU performance. I can't afford a whole new computer right now, but if a new video card won't help then I'll save towards a new PC instead.

Thanks for any info.

JonnyWarhawk · Jun 15, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Worst case scenario you will just have bad FPS and some skipping. You will be able to play, though.

Yanman.be · Jun 15, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

dual cpu p3? Never heard of such a thing....

lordpwn · Jun 15, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

GW doesn't seem to have much support for multiple CPUs, don't expect the second CPU to do anything else than smooth out the little framerate bumps caused by other stuff running on the computer at the same time.

With that hardware some of the areas in Nightfall are going to be a slideshow, new video card or not. Parts of the Mirror of Lyss explorable area run below 20 FPS on an Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.0 GHz .

Tachyon · Jun 16, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordpwn

Parts of the Mirror of Lyss explorable area run below 20 FPS on an Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.0 GHz .

Which is more down to the graphics solution than the CPU! A 2GHz CPU is way more than enough horsepower to run Nightfall at maximum settings, it all depends on the graphics solution!

lordpwn · Jun 16, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Azagoth: The graphics solution in question is an overclocked GeForce 7900 GS, and dropping the resolution or running in a tiny window has absolutely no effect on the low framerate in the Mirror of Lyss area when the large "pool" area and the floating structure are in view. It's CPU limited alright.

Amy Awien · Jun 16, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

dual cpu p3? Never heard of such a thing....

Now you have

I've had little to no trouble on a Duron @1350Mhz with a NVidia FX5500 and 512Mb. I'd look for a cheap 3D card from the FX or 6x00 generation. FSB and AGP thoughput are important too, I have much less stuttering with a faster (8x vs 4x) AGP and FSB clock. If your system has relatively good specs in these area's it might all be good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordpwn

Parts of the Mirror of Lyss explorable area run below 20 FPS on an Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.0 GHz . .... The graphics solution in question is an overclocked GeForce 7900 GS

Odd, I get that (and better) from that location on a Sempron @2GHz and the 5500. With a faster uP and much faster gfx ... try disabling vSync?

Yanman.be · Jun 16, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

vSync has nothing to do with low fps?

Amy Awien · Jun 16, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Turning it off almost doubled the framerate for me.

Karatta · Jun 16, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

<Edited when I had some downtime to review your graphics card model>

I would suggest grabbing a new video card, but please be sure to read your motherboard manual, or the manual that should have come with your system if you purchased it from a distributor, and make sure what type of video card your system can handle. In this case it should say somewhere in there "This AGP slot is a Zx speed", where Z stands for the numbers 1 through 4 most likely.

Cleaning your PC of dust will also help a lot with data speeds! Especially if you have never done it. To do so, purchase a can of compressed air and shoot it at the dust prone areas, IE, processor, video card, hard drive, and the connections between them on the system board with the case door open.

Back on topic though....

After reviewing your video card from a bit 'o Googlin, it seems that you may have a 1x, 2x, or possibly even 4x card! That is great, because the higher it is, the better your options are. Be sure that your system will run a video card for the speed in the manual, and dont try to shoot for a 6x or a 8x AGP card or higher with the mindset that "they will clock backwards", because I have been to quite a few homes where this has shorted out the circuts from the video card to the processor, and in one particular case, due to overclocking, melted the computers noggin right into the acryllic case! Sometimes with older stuff, it does not have backward compatibility.

To be sure that your system has an AGP slot, if you are unsure of what it looks like, check out wikipedia and be sure that you find that "brownish" looking slot on your motherboard, away from all the "whiteish" ones that there are many more of. The "brownish" slot will more than likely be a bit smaller than the "whiteish" ones, and will have your video card sitting in the saddle.

Your processor speed, although it will hamper the games speed during largely populated player zones, should not be much of a problem during the instanced parts of the game, outside of some slowdowns during very large fights (I predict 22 or more people). Most of the slowdowns you will recieve will probabbly be due to the transfer between the Hard Drive/RAM/CPU, and will not be directly the CPUs fault. You will definatly have to set the game to a low frills though, and low graphics, probabbly 800x600 resolution, just to keep the game running above 10 or 15 frames per second. 10 to 15 frames per second is definatly playable though, I did it for years on my old 2GHz computer up till a few weeks ago.

If you keep your hard drive clean and tight, and your desktop & start menu clean of icons/folders, and keep the boot up programs to a minimum, you will be able to play!

If you are willing to do all that, then you'll be A-OK.

The great news (besides Gieko insurance switching) is that no matter your maximum AGP slot speed, it should be pretty cheap to snag one even on a mouthwash-drunkards allowance!

The bad news is, it may be tough to find one in the stores. Snoop around on ebay and see and I am sure you can find a few floating around!

Quaker · Jun 16, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elttil

The main problem is my video card -- Matrox Millenium G400 -- won't cut it. However, before I drop some cash on a new video card, I'm wondering if my PC will run GW adequately. It's a dual CPU 866Mhz P3 with 512MB RAM.

This is one of those little gotcha's that crops up these days. I'm not sure if GW would specifically utilize multiple CPU's in a new dual/quad CPU - an older P3 using two physical chips would be even more problematic. The best way to find out would be to try a better video card. But, that's where the gotcha comes in - your system, I assume, uses the AGP 4X version of the G400 (if it uses PCI, that's only worse). First problem would be finding a newer/better video card that actually works in a 4X slot. And, if it doesn't improve things, and you opt to get a new system, any new system worth getting will use a PCI-Express video slot - making any AGP card not reusable. So, best idea would be to either borrow a better video card to try it out, or buy one on the condition you can return it if it doesn't "work" in your system. (Btw, the power supply in the P3 system could be a problem with using a newer power hungry card.)

My system uses an AMD 64 X2 3500+ and a x1800XL video card - I haven't noticed any particularly low framerates in the Mirror of Lyss - but maybe...

About vsync - which is short for vertical sync. Vsync syncronizes the video update rate to the vertical refresh rate of the monitor, and has more to do with older CRT monitors than newer LCD monitors. Without getting too technical, there is a time during a standard video signal when no video information is displayed (VBI - vertical blanking interval) - this happens once every "vertical refresh". The vertical refresh rate for any new monitor is however, at least, 50Hz (or FPS - frames per second) for an LCD, and can go much higher for a CRT.
When vsync is enabled, the video display information is updated during this VBI so that there is no change in the displayed frame during the refresh, to reduce "tearing" and other glitches in the picture. Because of the way LCDs work, these effects would be less noticeable or distracting than on a CRT, and the refresh rate is not as important.
With vsync on, if the system is producing less fps than the refresh rate, the video card sometimes has to wait for the VBI which can cause some choppiness. If the system produces more fps than the refresh rate, the display fps will be locked to the monitor refresh rate (say, 60fps) but the game itself will still update at the faster rate. (50 fps is more than adequate to display smooth motion btw - movies only run at 24fps, tv is effectively 30fps.)
So, if your system/game is producing less than the refresh rate of the monitor, turning vsync off may reduce choppiness. If it's producing more, turning vsync off may show more fps, but show more artifacts.

Turning vsync off on an LCD monitor would likely show little difference either way. It's more useful for CRT users. But, in any case, vsync does not directly affect the actual fps, it only affects the display of the fps.

Tachyon · Jun 16, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordpwn

Azagoth: The graphics solution in question is an overclocked GeForce 7900 GS, and dropping the resolution or running in a tiny window has absolutely no effect on the low framerate in the Mirror of Lyss area when the large "pool" area and the floating structure are in view. It's CPU limited alright.

No it's not, well not on my system anyway! I'm running an Athlon64 3200+ 'Venice' with a clocked 7900GS too (620/1550) and I don't drop below 50fps at the place you mention.

Karatta · Jun 16, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

<edited to show a better picture of the male end, and an actual working link this too>

Another helpful tidbit that I forgot to mention, is that if your monitor supports, and your old or new (should you choose to buy) card supports Digitial Video Input, definatly go with it.

My vewing space nearly doubled when I upgraded to my first LCD flatscreen, and even with a higher resolution, I have faster graphics, and I have noticed this for everyone else iv been in contact with too. So if you can get a hold of a DV-I cable, and you can use it, dont be afraid to plug it in.

Those pesky analog waves are a lot slower than just straight to digital input information.

You may have an analog one, if your video cable out of your monitor has a blue head on it, and uses a pattern of pins that resembles : The female end and, here is The male end

Karatta · Jun 16, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordpwn

Azagoth: The graphics solution in question is an overclocked GeForce 7900 GS, and dropping the resolution or running in a tiny window has absolutely no effect on the low framerate in the Mirror of Lyss area when the large "pool" area and the floating structure are in view. It's CPU limited alright.

Your Front Side Bus and your Serial ATA speed needs, with your RAM size and access types, also has a lot to do with that too. The CPU isnt usually a cuplrit of slow downs till further down the line in computer hardware, since it runs so much faster than everything thing else on the board.

Sadly though, Guild Wars does not support multiple CPUs for our original poster, or multithreading in any way, so looks like he is down to 1 engine to fly with.

Elttil · Jun 17, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Wow! Thanks to all for the helpful information and advice. I've also been using the The Ultimate Video Card Guide! in this forum to get some useful tips.

My current video card is AGP and my PC's system guide states, "AGP universal connector support 1x, 2x, 4x, and AGP Pro50." I did some quick searches for an FX 5[2/5/7]00 and everyone I found for AGP said 8x so it looks like I'll need to drop to a GeForce4 model to find AGP 4x or else use a PCI version of an FX card. I haven't looked at ATI cards yet to see what the options are there.

Hmmm, this raises my next question-- Which would perform better, an FX5200 PCI or a Ti 4200 AGP? I imagine either will be fine in my current PC and the difference wouldn't be noticible since I'll be using low resolution and detail settings, but I'd love to hear opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

dual cpu p3? Never heard of such a thing....

Pretty rare configuration (purchased in 2000) only found in workstations with each CPU on a separate daughter card in its own slot. My employer lets us take our old machines home when we get new ones, so that's where this came from. I'm due to get a new machine at work in the next year so when I bring my current one home I'll be able to run GW just fine. I'm just hoping to find an inexpensive video card that will let me run GW until I get a new(er) PC.

eggrolls · Jun 17, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

The Ti4200 is better than the FX5200. Your CPUs will hold you back, but I think the Ti4200 and FX5200 should be pretty similar in price... so go for the Ti4200.

Amy Awien · Jun 17, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elttil

My current video card is AGP and my PC's system guide states, "AGP universal connector support 1x, 2x, 4x, and AGP Pro50." I did some quick searches for an FX 5[2/5/7]00 and everyone I found for AGP said 8x so it looks like I'll need to drop to a GeForce4 model to find AGP 4x or else use a PCI version of an FX card. I haven't looked at ATI cards yet to see what the options are there.

I've had my FX5500 in a Asus A7V333 board, which is a 4x AGP (1.5 V I think). There should be AGP cards for your system.

You may find this link useful: http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Hyper.nl · Jun 17, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I think your CPU is just way too slow. And dual is not much going to help.

I would advise to get a new system, even a low-end system is way more powerful than what you have now.

moriz · Jun 18, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

my old computer (P3 900mhz OC'd, 512 mb ram, radeon 9200SE 125mb 2x AGP) is capable of running the game at 1024x768 resolution. it stutters badly in towns, but instances can run at a cool 20 fps.

i set the graphics settings to high textures and shaders with everything else on low.

no matter what i do, i can't seem to make the graphics card go into 4x mode. it might be even faster if i can enable it.

Matsumi · Jun 18, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

What motherboard are you running two cpu's on? Is it one of those older server type boards? I'm not sure if guild wars would utilize both cpu's at the same time, but I'm sure your system will benefit from it, making things run a bit smoother off one of the cores.

If your vid card can handle 4x or even 8x agp speeds, then the rest is up to the motherboard whether or not it will allow those speeds. Could check the BIOS settings and see what the settings are capable of on the AGP bus, if only capable of 2x, then you're kind of sol unless there's some BIOS update that now supports it. But that's doubtful.