Curse

Techie · Nov 03, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Well due to a lot of these posts being about video cards, I figured I would make this neat little guide.

A video card in simple terms is what powers the graphics on your computer. It is what determines your screen resolution, refresh rates, basically whatever displays on your monitor. Now there are 3 main of video card slots (4 if you inclue integrated), they are the following:

PCI - The oldest of the video card slots. Is not made on motherboards anymore, and uses very old video cards such as the Nvidia Riva TNT and ATI Rage.
Integrated - Everyone's nightmare. This is what comes pre-installed on your motherboard, and CANNOT be removed. It usually is shared memory, meaning the memory capacity it has means how much RAM it takes away from your comp. Ever wonder why 512MB RAM shows up in System Information as 448? Well 512 - 64MB shared memory = 448MB of free RAM.
AGP - The most widely used slot today, is still old, being created around 1999. There are 2 main modes, of these have absolutely no difference in framerates whatsoever: AGP 4x/AGP 8x. Most cards today support this, including 6600GT, 6800, 6800GT, x800, and even x850XT.
PCI-Express - The newest and fastest video card slot available. It is a bit more expensive to upgrade, but you get what you pay for. PCI-E offers 2x the bandwidth of AGP slots, meaning a chance of a big FPS jump. Almost every single high-end card uses PCI-E, including the newer 7800GTX and the spankin' new x1800XT.

What Is Video Card RAM?

You may be wondering why I refer to "video card RAM" Think of a video card as a small computer. It has a core, memory speed, along with specified RAM. This RAM allows for faster processing of textures, and how much it can texturize per second. There are the following RAM specifications, going from least to greatest:

8MB
16MB
32MB
64MB
128MB
256MB

^ Thanks to EternalTempest for this side note. If you have Windows Vista and want the full eyecandy of the GUI, 256MB on your video card is a must have.
512MB

The higher the RAM = the better texture processing. It can also render images and objects faster as well.

Core Speed and Memory Speed

Ah, what makes a video card, the core and memory speed. Think of the core speed as the processor, and the memory speed as standard RAM speed. For example, a 600mhz core and 900mhz memory will do some damage on games, you should get high FPS rates, unless you have hardly any pipelines (will get to this later). Now something like 250mhz core and 200mhz memory will do mediocre, lower FPS rates.

So for simple terms: Higher Clock + Memory = Higher FPS

Pipelines

Ah, pipelines. No, not what connects your toilet to the sewer, I mean video card pipelines. Pipelines are basically open transfer ports in your video card that allow the processing of textures and information. The more you have and the more that are open and working = the better FPS and the better the quality will be.

For example, say 4 pipelines can render 1.1M pixels a second. Well, maybe 16 pipes can render 6M pixels a second. Why? Because there are more working pipes transferring more information.

This really is used for overclocking, which is on down later.

Major Video Card Manufacturers

Now, there are two main corporations that produce video cards. ATI, the oldest company, and Nvidia, the fierce competitor.

Nvidia is known for accomplishments such as SLI, while ATI is known for it's relatively new Crossfire (equivalent to SLI), and the creation of the PCI-Express architechture.

Really, no company is better, no company is worse. It is all who you like and don't like, pretty much fanboyism. Both have their ups and downs.

Here is a list of some cards that are newer and fairly inexpensive that will do great for GW.

ATI

x300 (PCI-E)
x600 (PCI-E)
x800 (PCI-E/AGP)
x800GTO (PCI-E/AGP)
x800GT (PCI-E/AGP)
x850XT (PCI-E/AGP) <-- Recommended
x700 Pro (PCI-E)
9800 Pro (AGP) <-- Recommended
9600 Pro/XT (AGP)

Nvidia

FX 5200 (AGP/PCI)
FX 5500 (AGP)
FX 5700 (AGP)
6200 (PCI-E/AGP)
6600 (AGP/PCI-E)
6600GT (PCI-E/AGP) <-- The best card for your money right now. Will get great FPS on any game at almost any resolution. I recommend!
Vanilla 6800 (PCI-E/AGP)
6800GT (PCI-E/AGP) <-- Great higher end card.
6800 Ultra (PCI-E/AGP) <-- Is expensive, and I recommend getting the 7800GT or GTX. It comes with either 256MB or 512MB of RAM. The 512MB is ideal for rendering textures at higher resolutions, like 1600x1200 on Doom 3.
7800GT (PCI-E)
7800GTX (PCI-E)

*Note: Just because ATI sponsors GW does NOT mean their cards perform better in the game.

On With The Show!

Now how to decide if you card will do ok in GW:

Minimum System Specs:

Windows XP/2000/ME/98
800 MHz Pentium III or equivalent
256 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 or GeForce 3 or 4 MX with 32MB of video memory
2 GB available hard drive space
Internet connection
DirectX 8.0

Now to be honest, that setup is the bare minimum, at 800x600 resolution with a crappy FPS. If you just want to play the game, and no eye candy, then fine that will work. If you want a cheap upgrade from a 32MB card, go with the GeForce 4 Ti4200 with 128MB, or the GeForce MX4000 with 128MB. Both about $30-40.

Recommended System Specs:

Windows XP/2000/ME/98
Pentium III 1GHz or equivalent
512 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9000 or GeForce 4 Ti Series with 64MB of video memory
2 GB available hard drive space
Internet connection

Now we are getting somewhere. If you want the full eyecandy, well some cards might be able to pull it off at the right resolution. I would recommend the ATI 9550, or the Nvidia 5200 or 5500. They can hold their own and are DirectX 9.0 compatible.

Now here is a list of cards that will get the full eye candy at almost any resolution:

6600GT
x800
x800GTO
x800GT
x800XT
x850
x850XT
x850XT PE
6800
6800GT
7800GT
7800GTX
x1300
x1600
x1800
x1800XT
9800 Pro
9800XT
9600XT

Pretty much any one of these cards will get you what you want out of the game.

Now for some cards that can pull of pretty good settings:

9550
9600 Pro
9250
GeForce MX 4000
GeForce Ti 4200
FX 5200
FX 5500
x300
x600
x700

And then the cards that will pretty much be put on low settings:

GeForce 2
9000
8500
GeForce 3

Card Resellers/Manufacturers

Here are some of the resellers and manufacturers that produce ATI and Nvidia cards:

ATI

Powercolor - Basically the largest manufacturer of ATI, has high-quality cards.
ATI - Well, the company that invents the card directly sells them as well
Sapphire - Another major reseller, has great support and decent quality of cards.

Nvidia

BFG - Great cards, most come pre-OC'ed. Great service, support, quality, can't ask for a better company!
XFX - Known to have performance cards, but is also known to come up short with service and support.
eVGA - My personal favorite company. Has awesome cards, great quality, awesome service and support. Rivals BFG
MSI - A great card company, has great PCI-Express cards, and great support to match.
Gigabyte - I've had bad experiences with their support, but they do make decent quality cards.
AOpen - Not a highly known manufacturer, but does create very nice cards, idle and load temps stay low.

Overclocking

Now the fun starts, OVERCLOCKING!

Overclocking - To push a piece of computer hardware past manufacturer standards, defaults, or settings.

Basically, making it vroom faster

Now there are several guides on overclocking, which will go way more in-depth than I could ever go. Here are just a few links if your interested:

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Video...d-Overclocking
http://www.pimprig.com/forums/showth...rerid=&t=16413
http://www.sysopt.com/features/graph...le.php/3549986

Conclusion

That pretty much covers it! If you are still unsure if your card can run GW ok, look around the forum, search for your card and see what others have said.

I like to also follow by this little guide:

32MB RAM - Low settings, 800x600/1024x768
64MB RAM - Low/Medium settings, 800x600/1024x768
128MB RAM - Medium/High settings, 800x600/1024x768/1280x964
256MB RAM - High settings, 800x600/1024x768/1280x964
512MB RAM - High settings, all resolutions

Note that this is also based on RAM you have and your CPU.

I am not responsible for any damage caused to your card. This is soley a guide on helping you find out if your card can run Guild Wars or not.

Thanks, and hope this guide helped!

EternalTempest · Nov 03, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Great post (rated 5 stars

), I would like an add a small tidbit. If you plan on running Windows Vista in full glory (the new interface), 256 mb video card is min requirement. It will run on fine (from looks of it so far) on lesser but not get all the cool new GUI stuff.

Techie · Nov 03, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Thank you

Yeah I just got Vista the other day and realized that 256MB is a must have. It is very cool

lord_shar · Nov 03, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

You forgot the 6800-Ultra, one of the faster AGP solutions available if you have an older system. These also come in 256MB or 512MB versions.

If possible, try to get a BFG-brand card if you're going with NVidia. Their cards come pre-overclocked out of the box, have full 24/7 support, and lifetime warranties.

Techie · Nov 03, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Yes they have the best support, but the price does not account for the puny 25mhz OC they do, you will maybe get a 1-3 FPS boost for extra $$$. It is really not worth it. But if you like their service and support, BFG cannot be beaten.

And the Ultra is mainly sold in 512MB versions, PCI-E. And I could list every gfx card out there, but I picked the most popular that will do good for the $$$.

swaaye · Nov 03, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I think the X800GTO cards are the mid-range champs right now actually. They are 12 pixel / 6 vertex pipeline cards with 256MB 256-bit DDR3, running 400/980MHz. You can almost certainly clock them to over 500MHz, at which point they will rival a 6800GT for the price of a 6600GT.

I just upgraded a friend from a 6600GT to a X800GTO (550/1000) and he was rather awestruck at the improvement for the same price.

Whatever you do, stay away from Geforce FX. The Geforce FX cards are especially awful and I cringe at seeing people buy them.

Ultra High End
AGP - ATI Radeon X850XT PE is the fastest there probably will ever be.
PCIe - Geforce 7800GT or GTX, or the Radeon X1800XL or XT.

Midrange
AGP - Radeon X800GTO
PCIe - Radeon X800GTO or GTO2 (can be unlocked to a full X850XT PE if you read up)

Entry Level
AGP - Geforce 6600 non-GT, Radeon X700, or a used Radeon 9700 or 9800 nonSE from eBay!
PCIe - Geforce 6600 or Radeon X700
PCI - If you really are stuck with PCI you should probably upgrade your entire system honestly. The rest of the system is probably slow too. If you really need a card though go with a Radeon 9250 or GeforceFX 5500. There aren't many choices, and none of them are fast.

------------------
Excellent Card Roundups
Tom's Hardware's VGA Charts Summer 2005 PCIe
Tom's Hardware's VGA Charts Summer 2005 AGP
------------------

Techie · Nov 03, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Yes but they lack SM 3.0, and regardless of what people say, is going to be crucial in future games. I would rather buy a SM 3.0 enabled card, which helps support HDR, which is already featured in games like Lost Coast and DoD: Source. You have to take in consideration not just performance, but shaders and models as well.

EternalTempest · Nov 03, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Does the 6600GT support sm3.0 (where the x800GTO card doesn't)?

swaaye · Nov 03, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

SM3.0 isn't going to matter one bit if the card's performance isn't there to begin with. The 6600 series arguably is inadequate for real pixel shading tasks as it does not have the massive pixel fillrate needed for things like HDR lighting, etc. And, considering the userbase of SM2a cards, developers will not leave you in the dust if you have a X800 on down.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4.../index.x?pg=10

In current games an X800GTO will absolutely dust a 6600GT. Though in Guild Wars they are probably equal or the 6600GT may actually be faster. I noticed this in a review. But I still pulled 1600x1200 4X AA at 60-90fps on the X800GTO. The extra 128MB of RAM helps a lot with jerkyness too.

I have access to Radeon 7500, 8500, 9500PRO, 9600, 9700, X800GTO along with Geforce 6600GT, 6800Go, and 6800GT. The 8500 on up run Guild Wars extremely well. For antialiasing you should go for Radeon 9800 and Geforce 6600GT on up. 256MB video RAM helps smooth out the loading of textures in game which can create pauses and jitters when turning around for example. The Radeon X800GTO was across the room from my 6800Go and my friend's 6800GT and it was absolutely on par with the 6800GT. Incredible card for $200.

If you really take SM3.0 seriously you should not use anything below a 6800GT. Obviously the 7800 cards are fantastic for SM3.0, and the new Radeon X1800 is even faster. It starts to get a wee bit pricey up there though.

lord_shar · Nov 03, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techie

Yes they have the best support, but the price does not account for the puny 25mhz OC they do, you will maybe get a 1-3 FPS boost for extra $$$. It is really not worth it. But if you like their service and support, BFG cannot be beaten.

And the Ultra is mainly sold in 512MB versions, PCI-E. And I could list every gfx card out there, but I picked the most popular that will do good for the $$$.

BFG card's memory clocks are also typically cranked +100mhz above spec, and benchmarks show a lot more than +1-3 fps depending on resolution. BFG card heatsinks are usually optimal despite their reference design. Also, their core yields purchased are well above average since they will come out of the factory pre-overclocked. This requires more quality control on their side to fish out the good GPU cores from the bad.

BFG's are priced about the same as their competitors according to www.pricewatch.com.

The main reason I replied was to note that your list was incomplete. Also, if you're buying at this performance range, price typically isn't a concern.

swaaye · Nov 03, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

The OC in the name becomes far less useful as you go down. For example, the Geforce FX5200 OC is like only 20MHz above stock on both RAM and GPU. Remember though that anything in the FX series should not be bought anymore. Anything below a FX5950 Ultra is absolutely pathetic for modern games. Even the 5950Ultra has trouble competing with a lowly Radeon 9600 at times.

My friend's 6800GT OC is running 370MHz instead of 350MHz on core, not sure about RAM. If the prices are equal the decision is obvious, but considering that basically ALL cards can overclock to BFG's OC levels you should not pay more for them.

lord_shar · Nov 03, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaaye

The OC in the name becomes far less useful as you go down. For example, the Geforce FX5200 OC is like only 20MHz above stock on both RAM and GPU. Remember though that anything in the FX series should not be bought anymore. Anything below a FX5950 Ultra is absolutely pathetic for modern games. Even the 5950Ultra has trouble competing with a lowly Radeon 9600 at times.

My friend's 6800GT OC is running 370MHz instead of 350MHz on core, not sure about RAM. If the prices are equal the decision is obvious, but considering that basically ALL cards can overclock to BFG's OC levels you should not pay more for them.

Most NVidia GPU's can handle a +20mhz overclock, but if you have a higher grade core, you can clock much higher. By going with a pre-screened GPU from manufacturers like BFG mounting better-than-average heat sinks, you do give yourself a little more head-room for higher overclocks. Even if you choose not to overclock, that lifetime warranty will still come in handy if Murphy's laws decide to assert themselves.

Check out pricewatch... I'm seeing similar prices between BFG and other card makers.

swaaye · Nov 03, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Lord Shar, I agree with you 100%. But if you're not an overclocker, you should probably just go with the cheapest card.

Also here are my 3dmark2005 scores from a few cards that I've tested lately. All default settings.

X800GTO @ 550/1000 = 5320
6800GT @ 370/1020 = 5123
6800Go @ 370/770 = 4355
6600GT @ 590/1200 = 3997
9700 @ 390/350(700) = 2572

Systems were not identical but they are quite close.

Techie · Nov 03, 2005, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Oh and the GT wins because of higher clock speed, why not unlock some pipes in that 6800GT and lets see what happens.

Here are some scores I got my with my friends cards:

Vanilla 6800 450/1020 - 4500
6600GT 600/1180 - 5200
6800GT at 420/1100 with pipes unlocked - 5700

I don't know anyone with an x800GT so I can't compare. But it makes a big difference what pipes and OC'ing can do. That and my dry ice

Oh, and btw you are way off about the 6800GT coming 100+ mhz out of the box.

eVGA 6800GT: 350mhz core: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130215

BFG 6800GT OC: 370mhz core: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143025

Take a look at the price difference, about $25 for a 20mhz increase.

lord_shar · Nov 03, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techie

Oh and the GT wins because of higher clock speed, why not unlock some pipes in that 6800GT and lets see what happens.

Here are some scores I got my with my friends cards:

Vanilla 6800 450/1020 - 4500
6600GT 600/1180 - 5200
6800GT at 420/1100 with pipes unlocked - 5700

I don't know anyone with an x800GT so I can't compare. But it makes a big difference what pipes and OC'ing can do. That and my dry ice

Oh, and btw you are way off about the 6800GT coming 100+ mhz out of the box.

eVGA 6800GT: 350mhz core: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130215

BFG 6800GT OC: 370mhz core: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143025

Take a look at the price difference, about $25 for a 20mhz increase.

Both the 6800 GT and Ultra have full 16 pipes enabled, so what are you unlocking???

The BFG 7800GTX's run their memory clocks at 1300mhz instead of stock 1200mhz, but this doesn't apply to the 6800 predecessors. Notice I didn't name any Nvidia GPU's in my last post

Also, you're confusing core clock with memory clock speeds.

An extra $25 for +20mhz, lifetime warranty, better heatsink, higher grade core, and 24/7 support is easily worth it. This is a no-brainer

twicky_kid · Nov 04, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

few questions for ya. i have been having a problem after i added my video card. it only happens in certian situations but i haven't been able to figure it out.

system specs

1.6 ghz athlon cpu
1 ghz ddr ram
R9600XT-VIO ATI video card

that video card is smoking. it has features that the normal 9600 doesn't have. it has a 500 mhz core speed (built in overdrive for safe OC). not sure what speed is after OC (probly 600+). only 4 pipelines

didn't know about that till i read this post i'll be sure to look at that when i buy a new card.

my monitor is a sony, not sure of model, made for graphics enginering and is HD ready ($60 for damn cables). right now i'm set on 1024x768 resolution (highest i can go is 2048x1526).

the problem that i have is an acute drop in fps. i ran a torture test and monitored the fps. this program had ball bearings flying around the screen while the camera was moving extremely fast. it held steady at 35 fps but every 5 seconds or so it would drop to 3 fps then come back up. when i play GW i run it window mode. my 1 gig of ram allows me to run many different things while i play (mainly music on winamp). if i minimize my GW window and run open my browser or winamp and start it up when i bring GW back up i get the acute drop in fps and the game skips. i cannot get this to stop while i'm playing. i shut the game down completely and bring it back up. sometimes it stops and sometimes there is nothing i can do but restart the comp. this is very annoying in 8vs8 when there is alot going on. the skips are killing my playablity.

i have installed the drivers that came with the card. after that i checked for updates. installed recent update and shot everything to hell so i rolled it back. toned down resolution still no help. stop running other programs and will still skip if i minimize and restore. can't figure this out.

lord_shar · Nov 04, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

few questions for ya. i have been having a problem after i added my video card. it only happens in certian situations but i haven't been able to figure it out.

system specs

1.6 ghz athlon cpu
1 ghz ddr ram
R9600XT-VIO ATI video card

that video card is smoking. it has features that the normal 9600 doesn't have. it has a 500 mhz core speed (built in overdrive for safe OC). not sure what speed is after OC (probly 600+). only 4 pipelines

didn't know about that till i read this post i'll be sure to look at that when i buy a new card.

my monitor is a sony, not sure of model, made for graphics enginering and is HD ready ($60 for damn cables). right now i'm set on 1024x768 resolution (highest i can go is 2048x1526).

the problem that i have is an acute drop in fps. i ran a torture test and monitored the fps. this program had ball bearings flying around the screen while the camera was moving extremely fast. it held steady at 35 fps but every 5 seconds or so it would drop to 3 fps then come back up. when i play GW i run it window mode. my 1 gig of ram allows me to run many different things while i play (mainly music on winamp). if i minimize my GW window and run open my browser or winamp and start it up when i bring GW back up i get the acute drop in fps and the game skips. i cannot get this to stop while i'm playing. i shut the game down completely and bring it back up. sometimes it stops and sometimes there is nothing i can do but restart the comp. this is very annoying in 8vs8 when there is alot going on. the skips are killing my playablity.

i have installed the drivers that came with the card. after that i checked for updates. installed recent update and shot everything to hell so i rolled it back. toned down resolution still no help. stop running other programs and will still skip if i minimize and restore. can't figure this out.

You might want to check for spyware in the background... these can cause momentary spikes in CPU load while trying to log keys and make outbound connections.