Curse

The Way Out · Mar 14, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

GWx2 count?

Anyhoo, I'm now seriously confused about the whole 64bit Vista thing. Are 64bit and 32bit Vista separate products, or does the one disc contain both versions?

I have the upgrade version of Vista Home Premium - will this contain a 64 bit version, or will I have to start from scratch and buy a whole new, extortionately overpriced Vista installation?

No, it shouldn't contain both versions. They are separate products. Also, as far as I know, you cannot do an upgrade from an existing 32 bit system to a 64 bit.

There are a few things I do not like about 64 bit...

One, unless the driver is digitally signed, the kernel will refuse it.
Most 32 bit drivers are not supported.
Lack of driver support.

Conclusion for me...

Most people have 64 bit hardware, however, have no need for an upgrade to a 64 bit operating system.

Last, Crysis doens't require more than 4GB of memory. You should never disable virtual memory, also. There is no need to. SATA drives are great for fast reading a writing bursts.

Snograt · Mar 14, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Actually, I looked into it. You can upgrade a 32 bit install to a 64 bit, but only if you bought a retail box. I got an OEM upgrade, so I'm S.O.L. (See Windows Vista Alternate Media if you fancy 64bits of potential improvement). Oh, and yes - definitely a clean install. You need to boot from the Vista DVD as the 64 bit installation program won't run on a 32 bit system. Seems logical

The price for a Vista retail box is still ludicrous - £346.98, equivalent to US$700.

Brianna · Mar 14, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I was thinking of buying a new HDD and installing a 64 bit of Vista on it, but I've noticed a few things.

Firstly that it's new, and has lots of problems with games, undesirable for me.

Secondly I'm hearing about the new ''Windows'' coming out in 2010 or later?

That is very soon for a new operating system to be coming out, we had XP for at least 6 years? (Don't know exactly) but none the less, a long time.

Kind of turns me off of getting Vista, and I don't want an O.E.M Pack, I want to be able to reinstall it on a new rig if need be.

Choices..

Snograt · Mar 14, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

One final thing, then I PROMISE I'll leave you alone

My rig has 2 non-RAIDed 500GB HDDs. Would there be any advantage in dual-booting the 2 versions of Vista? (And if so, is it even possible!)

Thank you, oh wise ones.

The Way Out · Mar 14, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

One final thing, then I PROMISE I'll leave you alone

My rig has 2 non-RAIDed 500GB HDDs. Would there be any advantage in dual-booting the 2 versions of Vista? (And if so, is it even possible!)

Thank you, oh wise ones.

Yes, there is a slight advantage in that you can test out the 64 bit OS on the second partition. That will give you an actual experience with the OS without having you commit entirely to it. Dual booting is possible with both OSes. In fact, Windows boot loader supports up to three OSes, last I heard.

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

700 USD are you serious. I got mine for 450 USD.

Dual booting on different hard drives is a bit trickier, but I don't see any real advantage. The OS itself takes up a whopping 15 gigs, I wouldn't do it.

Just setup the version you'd like to try on one of the drives, and if you don't like how it goes, backup the data to your other drive, wipe it, then install the version you want. When it comes to Windows, there's no better precaution than a clean format.

llsektorll · Mar 14, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Actually, I looked into it. You can upgrade a 32 bit install to a 64 bit, but only if you bought a retail box. I got an OEM upgrade, so I'm S.O.L. (See Windows Vista Alternate Media if you fancy 64bits of potential improvement). Oh, and yes - definitely a clean install. You need to boot from the Vista DVD as the 64 bit installation program won't run on a 32 bit system. Seems logical

The price for a Vista retail box is still ludicrous - £346.98, equivalent to US$700.

lol its like half that in canada.... but seriously how many of you are buying retail... lol

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

I was thinking of buying a new HDD and installing a 64 bit of Vista on it, but I've noticed a few things.

Firstly that it's new, and has lots of problems with games, undesirable for me.

Secondly I'm hearing about the new ''Windows'' coming out in 2010 or later?

That is very soon for a new operating system to be coming out, we had XP for at least 6 years? (Don't know exactly) but none the less, a long time.

Kind of turns me off of getting Vista, and I don't want an O.E.M Pack, I want to be able to reinstall it on a new rig if need be.

Choices..

You're referring to Windows 7. OEM versions allow you to reinstall, it's just... only difference is you get just the disc plus activation and no retail box/manuals.

Brianna · Mar 14, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Oh? Well hmm.. I was wondering why a 32bit OEM costs like 180$, sounded cheap compared to some other packs.. like the full box set, didn't know the difference.

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

OEM are usually sold in bulk to people who build systems, that's why they're so cheap. Theres no extra packaging like you would find in a "retail" version, just what you need to get your OS running.

Surena · Mar 14, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admael

OEM are usually sold in bulk to people who build systems, that's why they're so cheap. Theres no extra packaging like you would find in a "retail" version, just what you need to get your OS running.

No advanced support from MS either. A systembuilder shouldn't be needing that anyway.

LoL,

people believe that Windows 7 is some extremely new uber-windows that blows everyone's mind while infact it's based on Vista and will not have less hardware requirements. The only advantage that really could mean a bit (and will be overglorified soon, just wait) is the modular system that allows you to "disconnect" anything that your system doesn't need, so your kernel in usage will be pretty slim.

Other than that I can recommend Vista 64 SP1 for gaming unless you truly need EAX via DirectSound. EAX via OpenAL works under Vista.

Don't debate Crysis, it's just above today's GPU power. Wait for the GT200 in June. That'll most likely be the first GPU that can handle it.

Brianna · Mar 14, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

People just use Crysis to see how good their comp is, It's not even a game anymore, It's just a testing program designed around a game.

And in that case, I might look into the 64bit OEM pack for a new HDD, probably a Raptor, but who knows.

I think I'm going to wait a while, I'm in no rush to set any of that stuff up.

The Way Out · Mar 14, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

People just use Crysis to see how good their comp is, It's not even a game anymore, It's just a testing program designed around a game.

And in that case, I might look into the 64bit OEM pack for a new HDD, probably a Raptor, but who knows.

I think I'm going to wait a while, I'm in no rush to set any of that stuff up.

I would go OEM anyway, seriously... how often does anyone rely on MS support?

Also, 10k rpm is the way to go... anything else is painful...

Surena · Mar 14, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

HDDs suffer from very bad access times not transfer speed and while Raptors might seem nice, they lose (epicly) against SSDs which hopefully see more and more land. I would get a Raptor only for its access speed, not for anything else.

Saying that anything else below 10k RPM is painful is pretty epic fail.

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Striped raid terabytes > Raptors

For awhile I had striped raid Raptors, but one of them broke, now I'm just running Raptor and mirror raid terabytes.

SSD is in a totally different class than a Raptor, plus imagine the small fortune you'd have to pay to get a SSD with the capacity of a 150GB Raptor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Saying that anything else below 10k RPM is painful is pretty epic fail.

Anything below the 15k RPM Cheetahs are epic fail! rawr

Brianna · Mar 14, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Well, we high-jacked this one.

At the moment I have a 7,200RPM Sata drive, but figured that a Raptor would be better for Vista's needs, guess it doesn't need it, but maybe help some.

Either way O.E.M it is then I guess.

Pasha the Mighty · Mar 14, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

not so much vista's needs as your needs... it will speed up your comp because your program files will be accessed faster. imho, your pc would profit more from a new cpu, or memory with a faster mhz count.
BTW, this is totally off topic, and I have absolutely no experience with 64bit os's

Admael · Mar 14, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I think it's cheaper to stripe raid (2) 500GB Seagate 32MB cache drives than to have one or Raptors at 150GB (or even worse 74GB, 300GB Raptors are too expensive for me, and I own a QX9650)

EDIT: There is no 300GB Raptors, I was mistaken for 300GB Cheetahs.

Snograt · Mar 14, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I always think of them as 300GB Raptors, cos you always buy a pair to stripe ^^

Go the whole hog - get four for a stripy mirror 0+1

Feel free to hijack this thread - it's always interesting to see diverse opinions on tech toys

By the way - DAMN IT! I got my Vista Ult from Amazon (purely because they do next day delivery)> I deliberately steered clear of the OEMs cos I thought "better not, I'm not a system builder".

Idiot :/

Admael · Mar 15, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

The only OEM I buy is hard drives and CPUs. Everything else is retail.

4 Raptors... I prefer terabytes, I have lots of stuff to store. The newer TBs from Seagate are pretty impressive.