Curse

rick1027 · May 25, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

And for all the bitching, UAC doesn't actually affect the average user. More to the point, developers need to adopt better programming practices so they aren't constantly modifying files in the registry and protected system folders. On all of my Windows machines, I run tighter configurations than 99% of the people out there whining about UAC (limited user accounts, Software Restriction Policy, DEP, no Java, etc.) and there are maybe two or three legacy apps that ever gave me any issues. And hey, VMs are great for legacy apps.

actually i hear a lot about this but the common user doesnt understand what i mean when i call it uac. i got a friend who asked me if there was a way i could get rid of this pop up that comes everytime he tries to do something. i told him it was a security feature in vista and suggested he just live with it its safer for him to have it activated so it does effect the average user they just dont know how to disable it or understand the reason its there

moriz · May 25, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Default Nvidia drivers supports this, I'm running an 8800GT, slightly overclocked. Or was, until I switched to 7. I do remember setting up the desktops in the tool that Nvidia packaged with their drivers, there was two options, (A) One large display(At a resolution of 3360x1050), and (B) Two displays. The one large display is what I commonly used, and allowed for guild wars to select "3360x1050" as a display option, in full screen mode. I was also able to stretch it in Windowed mode to roughly these dimensions in both one and two displays. Perhaps you're thinking of two video CARDs, from my understanding, then you would be correct. I don't have two video cards to attempt this on, and I'm also too lazy to re-install XP to try it. It's been a while since I've done this, the last driver I remember installing for XP was 170.whatever, or maybe 171.whatever. Maybe you're forgetting that most video cards now-a-days come with two DVI outs and an SVideo out? Because that "triplehead2go" is for computers with only one video out, as far as I can tell.

matrox's triplehead2go is exactly what it sounds like: it allows you to hook up three monitors and have the graphic card thinks that it is one giant monitor, or 3+ monitors in "extended desktop" configuration.

it is that first ability that cause people to buy it, which implies that most video cards cannot do this on there own. otherwise, this product would serve no purpose.

it sounds more like you had a drive bug or some sort. even in winXP, there are two monitor configurations: 1) extend desktop, which allows you to extend windows+move things around into the second desktop, but a maximized window would only maximize up to one desktop, and 2) mirrored, which means the same info is shown on both monitors.

with all that said, i've never hooked up two identical monitors to my computer yet. the most i've done was a 22" at 1680x1050 and a 19" at 1280x1024. i've never had the ability to do a 2960x1024 resolution combined display, and my card is quite a bit more powerful than yours (HD4850), though i could stretch GW in windowed mode across both displays. there's also the fact that you probably don't want to game across only two monitors in the first place: your character would be in the middle of the combined display, which is right between the two monitors. hardly a comfortable way to play. not to mention, the performance hit from that huge resolution would make most games, even guild wars, mostly unplayable.

Lord Sojar · May 25, 2009, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Not to be a spoil-sport, but citations needed. It helps make informative posts look less like company press releases and paid ads.

For all the hype NV is pushing about CUDA and PhysX, there's not enough support for either right now (or even in the foreseeable future) for average consumers to care. Pushing polygons in games is still the only real metric that Joe Sixpack needs to care about.

I can't really cite anyone except myself?

All this is personal information that I have sitting on my desk.

As for CUDA and PhysX, I can see your standpoint on that. DirectX 11 changes that a bit, but otherwise, you are correct. It still needs more far reaching support to really become mainstream.

However, I must stress this as the initial post seems to confuse it a bit. GT300 will be able to match or exceed RV870 in 90% of cases (it comes down to game programming) Newer games will run better on GT300 thanks to the MPMD, while older games may run about the same speed/slightly slower on GT300. But, when you are talking about getting 800FPS+ in Guild Wars, who is going to miss 100FPS either way?

We didn't build a number crunching monster so it could only use proprietary software (ala CUDA and PhysX), we built it to blow games away. GT300 will surprise everyone, I am confident.

Also take note: When I discuss performance of GT300, I am talking about the high end single GPU solution. Who is to say we don't have our own "X2" ready as well? Early tests indicate that our single solution will match RV870's dual package solution (what is probably to become known as HD 5870x2) Take this as market hype, pimping my own company, or however you will; fact remains, GT300 is what we set out to do when I started working for the company (even slightly before), and seeing it do what it can do is, in short, stunning.

Sirius-NZ · May 26, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

As for Windows 7, I'm going to see if its sufficiently improved over Vista to be worth another $100+.

Iffy. It has plenty of new features, but (I guess this goes without saying) whether they're useful to you and, if so, how much you'd pay for them would determine that. The best guess you'll get is probably by trying the RC. If you don't want to do that, watching someone else use it might be OK too.

It's much more likely to be worth the upgrade over XP, although probably not on older machines running XP (you will still run out of memory and so on).

Killamus · May 26, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

matrox's triplehead2go is exactly what it sounds like: it allows you to hook up three monitors and have the graphic card thinks that it is one giant monitor, or 3+ monitors in "extended desktop" configuration.

it is that first ability that cause people to buy it, which implies that most video cards cannot do this on there own. otherwise, this product would serve no purpose.

If you had read the description of said product, you'd have noticed
this tidbit:

Quote:

Because Graphic eXpansion Modules are external, they are perfect for platforms previously limited to a single display, such as systems with integrated graphics, systems with no available expansion slots, or systems that are already closed and validated.

and that they're used for mainly systems with just 1 video output. As stated, there is an option to do this exact same thing in XP with the basic Nvidia drivers. I don't use ATI or AMD, so I don't know if they naively support this. I do think in order to select it, both screens have to be the same size though. I've never used monitors other then two of the same though, because differently sized monitors screws with my eyes. if Rahja could confirm/deny this theory, it'd be great.

Quote:

with all that said, i've never hooked up two identical monitors to my computer yet. the most i've done was a 22" at 1680x1050 and a 19" at 1280x1024. i've never had the ability to do a 2960x1024 resolution combined display, and my card is quite a bit more powerful than yours (HD4850), though i could stretch GW in windowed mode across both displays. there's also the fact that you probably don't want to game across only two monitors in the first place: your character would be in the middle of the combined display, which is right between the two monitors. hardly a comfortable way to play. not to mention, the performance hit from that huge resolution would make most games, even guild wars, mostly unplayable.

It's not as bad as it seems. If you have the "Wait for vert. synch" set on GW, there's no difference in FPS, if you don't have it, it takes about 75% of the FPS off. Of course, I don't run with AA, so I get 300FPS on one monitor, without "wait for vert. synch" selected.
Same with Oblivion, I was still getting far above 60FPS (If I remember correctly, the human eye can't see more then that anyways) with it on two monitors. Your character is split between the two displays, yes, but it really doesn't bother me. I know some people it bothers (When my friend comes over, he can't play with it on), but I'm not what most people call "Normal"

As an aside: I have done a bit more research into this: Apparently the Win7 drivers from Nvidia are still in development, so this feature (As well as quite a few others) still haven't been implemented.

And on a last note: People who know me say that I "Abuse" computers. I don't know how true this is, but when an operating system doesn't allow me to do something that it should support, it makes me rather mad, and I'll search for hours on end to figure out how to change the font text from black to a dark blue. (See: Tooltips in Gnome)

manager · May 26, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Killamus: have you tried to setup the multi-monitor display to "Horizontal Span" in the Nvidia control panel(Display menu --> Set up multiple displays)? Works for me on XP.

Killamus · May 26, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Yea, there's no options like that in Win7. Apparently there never will be either, because of all the new DRM in Win7.

Until they remove that, it's likely they'll lose a lot of customers because of it. Note that this affects all drivers, not just display ones, so there will probably be a lot more "Downgrading" because of this.

Looks like it's back to XP for me.

moriz · May 26, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

if all you want is dual monitors and the ability to work productively on it, there's always the "extend desktop" option, which allows for everything you'll want except dual screen gaming. if nvidia's control panel does not have it, right click on desktop and select "screen resolution". the option should be there.

manager · May 27, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Yea, there's no options like that in Win7. Apparently there never will be either, because of all the new DRM in Win7.

Until they remove that, it's likely they'll lose a lot of customers because of it. Note that this affects all drivers, not just display ones, so there will probably be a lot more "Downgrading" because of this.

Looks like it's back to XP for me.

Somehow i seriously doubt that. I'd say that 90% of Window users don't even have a dual screen setup or know what that means.

And like moriz said, there's a option for that in the windows settings.

GranDeWun · May 27, 2009, 06:06 PM // 18:06

For gaming, only, I might use Windows 7 if and when WinXp is completely unsupported.

However, I still fail to see what would convince the average business to go thru the long, costly migration from XP, so I suspect XP is with us for a long time.

Lord Sojar · May 27, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Business will most likely migrate either to Vista SP2 or Windows7... reason? Security. Vista is 100x more secure than XP ever was, and Windows7 will be even more so (or looks to be, but will be new, so might have vulnerabilities at first)

You have to realize, XP has been hacked, jacked, screwed with, and manipulated for years now. It has more holes than swiss cheese, and Microsoft can really no longer patch them all.

WindowsXP is extinct people; let it die. It is time to move on to a more secure, more robust platform. You know is really going to suck? Not being able to play any of the 2010 games that utilize DX11. DX11 is absolutely amazing, hands down. While it is becoming less important, DX11 is what DX10 wanted to be but never was. Expect a mass migration from game developers to the DX11 platform, due to Microsoft's new found openness of their platforms.

moriz · May 27, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

let's face it, wholesale conversion to DX11 won't happen until and unless the next gen consoles come out and supports it. cross-platform games is too lucrative right now, and having an easy port between XBOX 360 and the PC basically hinges on DX9.

Solar_Takfar · May 28, 2009, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I'm loving this feature! Keep up the good work!

I can barely wait for the GT300. Next year I'll be getting a wholly new system, and will probably be sporting a mid-high GT300 card, as well as win7, and whatever mid-high CPU intel is offering by then.

Killamus · May 28, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by manager

Somehow i seriously doubt that. I'd say that 90% of Window users don't even have a dual screen setup or know what that means.

True, but I also doubt that 90% of Windows users don't know the basics of how a computer works, either. The statement I made was inferred from my research into getting a dual-screen setup.

Quote:

And like moriz said, there's a option for that in the windows settings.

A horizontal span setting? Because everything I've seen this far says that Nvidia/ATI CAN not do such a thing.
From Nvidia's site:

Quote:

Horizontal and Vertical span modes are no longer available under Windows Vista.
Due to architectural changes in the new Windows Vista Window Display Driver Model (WDDM), span mode cannot be supported in NVIDIA graphics drivers. NVIDIA recommends using the built-in Windows Vista multi-display modes.

From many posts throughout the web, it is stated that Win7 still uses the WDDM. If you know of a way to span the desktop, please point out a link stating how to do so. That would most likely keep me with Win7 until March of '10.

moriz · May 28, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

i've run dual monitors (1680x1050 and 1280x1024) on both vista AND windows 7. it doesn't allow you to run a game on both monitors (full screen), but you can certainly have different windows open on each one.

i mean seriously, if you had played around with windows 7 AT ALL, you'd know this is available. it's called "extended desktop".

Sirius-NZ · May 28, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

If Killamus means maximised = both screens by "span the desktop", that won't help very much. Admittedly it's kind of hard to tell.

Also, I think at least a few developers would be pretty keen to at least support DX11, especially the major game-engine companies (Epic, Valve, id, Crytek). MMOs, which have less reason to include multi-platform support, are also more likely to consider it. That said, not many MMOs actually push graphics... although I expect GW2 will at least try. In 2005, Guild Wars was pretty impressive.

Ec]-[oMaN · May 28, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Also, I think at least a few developers would be pretty keen to at least support DX11, especially the major game-engine companies (Epic, Valve, id, Crytek). MMOs, which have less reason to include multi-platform support, are also more likely to consider it.

Sure they will support DX11, but it will be the same case as with DX10 I feel in the end. The big boys will release 1-2 titles that include SOME string of dx11 within their games and that's about it. We won't see a sheer amount of games supporting dx10-11 like DX9, especially until the majority of users are on Vista/Win7 which won't happen for at least the next year+.

Snow Bunny · May 28, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

sup.

60 GB c drive with 20gb for backup.

32bit XP with 2gb ram.

DO I ROCK WINDOWS 7 OR STICK WITH XP?

I tried vista and it was terrible. also, 800fps? please, i get 32.

moriz · May 28, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

stick with xp.

Killamus · May 30, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i've run dual monitors (1680x1050 and 1280x1024) on both vista AND windows 7. it doesn't allow you to run a game on both monitors (full screen), but you can certainly have different windows open on each one.

i mean seriously, if you had played around with windows 7 AT ALL, you'd know this is available. it's called "extended desktop".

There is a difference between "Span" and "Extended Desktop".

With span, Windows views both monitors as one giant monitor. With extended desktop, Windows still views them as two different monitors.

If you had bothered to read any of my posts, you'd know this.