Curse

Age · Oct 18, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I never knew that there were left handed keyboards untill I googled it and sure enough there are.

I may consider one of these for future keyboards.

http://www.fentek-ind.com/modular.htm

Snograt · Oct 18, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Odd.

If you're right-handed, use WASD. If you're a lefty, use the cursors. At least, that's my initial thought - what's your perspective on them, Age?

Incidentally, this one from MS should fit the bill: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/ga...s.aspx?pid=102

Cursors are still LHS, but the numpad is reversible.

Age · Oct 18, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

My perspective on them is that a right handed keyboard is fine if all you are using it for is basic computer work but gaming is different.It would be nice to have the right handed keys on the left if you are a lefty.It is a lot like driving a car as you have your left hand on the wheel and right hand on the shifter or gear selector if automatic.

Relnor · Oct 20, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

My perspective on them is that a right handed keyboard is fine if all you are using it for is basic computer work but gaming is different.It would be nice to have the right handed keys on the left if you are a lefty.It is a lot like driving a car as you have your left hand on the wheel and right hand on the shifter or gear selector if automatic.

I'm a proud lefty. Try using IJKL, and remap accordingly. I find it works great.

Snograt · Oct 20, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

On my UK layout, the obvious solution for lefties would be [;'# - with return within pinky reach.

Then again, I would've thought the standard layout is better for lefties - us right-handers can't use the cursor keys, you cack-handers can

Relnor · Oct 22, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

On my UK layout, the obvious solution for lefties would be [;'# - with return within pinky reach.

Then again, I would've thought the standard layout is better for lefties - us right-handers can't use the cursor keys, you cack-handers can

Cursor keys are good and all, but I find that there aren't enough other keys in reach to do all those crazy things like lean, crouch/prone, reload, ect. that are necessities in FPS's. Even in GW I like to have keys for cycling targets and what not.

isamu kurosawa · Oct 22, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Left handed keyboards are a false positive. Ergonomically speaking a standard qwerty keyboard is in fact left handed as it was designed to slow down a right handed persons typing speed to reduce jamming mechanisms in typewriters.

The numpad also makes little sense being next to your mouse hand. If anything a left sided numpad is a right-handed keyboard. Just a "bad" design choice in the first place. (althoguh most "bad" design choices are actually ones made by lefties).

For game movement i use the insert and page up keys for strafing and home for forward, end for backward, delete for turn left and page down for turn right. Much more comfortable than using letter movement.
It also gives a good arm stretch while holding your mouse. (the reason right handers use wasd more than arrow keys).

There are plenty of "left handed" products that are not actually made by left handed people and as such are useless.

Edit: In fact that very web page even contradicts itself in the "Mouse Friendly/Left Handed Keyboard" section. stating its a left handed keyboard but lists benefits to right handed people instead.

I took extra interest in college doing ergonomics because i was left handed. Things like this bug me.

Edit2: here is a quick diagram i made showing basic hand placement for movement if you are left handed.

bhavv · Oct 24, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Left handed keyboards are a false positive. Ergonomically speaking a standard qwerty keyboard is in fact left handed as it was designed to slow down a right handed persons typing speed to reduce jamming mechanisms in typewriters.

This is incorrect. A left handed person playing games will want to use their mouse in their left hand, on the left hand side of the keyboard, instead of the way right handers use them the normal way.

Place your mouse on the left hand side of your keyboard, use it with your left hand and use WASD with your right hand. You will, as a right handed person, find it highly uncomfortable. It is similary uncomfortable for a letf handed person to use a mouse in their right hand, they really need to use it in the left, and use WASD with the right. The problem with using the arrow pad is that your other buttons are too far away for comfortable playing in the majority of games.

When simply typing on a keyboard, it makes little difference if you are left or right handed, but when you are gaming with a mouse, it makes a huge difference as I have explained above.

Having WASD all the way on the right hand side of the keyboard is very comfortable for left handed gamers, like it is for right handers on a normal keyboard on the left hand side as you use your profficient hand on the mouse.

isamu kurosawa · Oct 24, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

This is incorrect. A left handed person playing games will want to use their mouse in their left hand, on the left hand side of the keyboard, instead of the way right handers use them the normal way.

Place your mouse on the left hand side of your keyboard, use it with your left hand and use WASD with your right hand. You will, as a right handed person, find it highly uncomfortable. It is similary uncomfortable for a letf handed person to use a mouse in their right hand, they really need to use it in the left, and use WASD with the right. The problem with using the arrow pad is that your other buttons are too far away for comfortable playing in the majority of games.

Show me where i seid left handers use a mouse with their right hand. Better not bother because i didn't.

I AM left handed so i do have experience in what i am talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

When simply typing on a keyboard, it makes little difference if you are left or right handed, but when you are gaming with a mouse, it makes a huge difference as I have explained above.

the origional qwerty layout was designed before mainstream use of pcs, back when typewriters where common. It was designed to slow down typing via key placement of commonly used letters to reduce jamming. Left handed people had alot of trouble as typists then because it naturally sped up their typing in turn causing extra jamming.
As jamming is no longer an issue left handers have an advantage in typnig speed to right handed people, although it does cause more typos.
The more recent dvorak keyboard was deisnged to increase the speed of typing for right handed people, and no suprise it slows down the typing speed of a left handed person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Having WASD all the way on the right hand side of the keyboard is very comfortable for left handed gamers, like it is for right handers on a normal keyboard on the left hand side as you use your profficient hand on the mouse.

WASD if far from comfortable because you have to hold your hands close together. Most games require you to use both the keyboard and mouse at the same time, maning a left handed person must use their right hand on the keyboard just as a right handed person uses their left hand on the keyboard.

WASD was used in games because the direction keys are too close to a right handed persons mouse, causing strain. The opposite is true for left handed people.

Next time you quote someone make sure you actually read the post first. Next time you try to add to a discussion make sure you know what you are talking about.

bhavv · Oct 24, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

WASD if far from comfortable because you have to hold your hands close together. Most games require you to use both the keyboard and mouse at the same time, maning a left handed person must use their right hand on the keyboard just as a right handed person uses their left hand on the keyboard.

Isnt this exactly why these left handed keyboards are good for left handed gamers? I think that using WASD + QE is still a lot more comfortable then D pad and delete / page down becase the keys are easier to press while in motion.

Never mind, I see what you meant, typing with the left hand would be easier as the keys are on the left hand side of the keyboard. The 'left handed' keyboard would make it slower for a left handed person to type because the keys are now on the right. But I'm not sure if this is true for gaming, only that it is true for typing.

I actually type a lot faster with my left hand now then I can with my right after years of typing, but I still cant write with it

.

isamu kurosawa · Oct 24, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Isnt this exactly why these left handed keyboards are good for left handed gamers? I think that using WASD + QE is still a lot more comfortable then D pad and delete / page down becase the keys are easier to press while in motion.

Never mind, I see what you meant, typing with the left hand would be easier as the keys are on the left hand side of the keyboard. The 'left handed' keyboard would make it slower for a left handed person to type because the keys are now on the right. But I'm not sure if this is true for gaming, only that it is true for typing.

I actually type a lot faster with my left hand now then I can with my right after years of typing, but I still cant write with it

.

insert, home etc work much better for me than keys liek wasd not only because of the location but because they are not offcentred. using wasd your back key is slightly off to your forward key wheras hime and end are parallel. directional keys are rearly good becayse of the lack of good options to strafe etc. ins, home, pge up etc are much better.

Snograt · Oct 25, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

It's a case of go with what works for you. I'm right-handed and it took me quite a while to get used to wasd. To me, the cursor keys feel much more natural. Heck, if you don't like the cursors then the numpad is absolutely perfect - all the keys are square to each other and there's lots of them. Unless you're using a lappy, of course

Like I said, whatever works for you - not a topic for argument.

bhavv · Oct 27, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

I think it takes a while for everyone to get used to wasd, but the key placement works quite well.

I forgot about this - for a truly ambidextorous approach, you can try one of these:

And you can combine it with something like a Diamondback 3G's which are also an ambitexterous design.

isamu kurosawa · Oct 28, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I think it takes a while for everyone to get used to wasd, but the key placement works quite well.

I forgot about this - for a truly ambidextorous approach, you can try one of these:

And you can combine it with something like a Diamondback 3G's which are also an ambitexterous design.

I never liked things like that for the same reason i decided against the zboard. The keys feel cheap and just not right.

The Diamondback 3G however is a great mouse for left handed people. Its what i opted for after realising the guild wars branded razer mouse i was gonig to buy was a right hand only mouse. (bad choice there by those in charge)

If my mouse ever fails me i will look at a more modern ambi-mouse from razer, but for not the 3G is just right.

Βєτā™ · Oct 28, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

What we are looking at here guys is how left handed people are looked down upon - Look at the quality of the keyboards these poor people have to put up with...

Thats not the worst part...

Quote:

USB ErgoFlex Keyboard for the PC, Mac, & SUN with 2 USB Ports-COLOR BLACK KBFXUSBB2 $229 $199

I think thats a tat bit overpriced, saying that it could be a priceless antique...

Aldric · Oct 28, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Never liked the look of or thought about buying one of those leftie keyboards. Not sure my brain could process the redefined layout after all these years on a standard qwerty.

Forward Arrow - Forward
Back Arrow - Back
Left Arrow - Turn Left
Right Arrow - Turn Right

Numpad 8 - Forward
Numpad 5 - Back
Numpad 4 - Strafe Left
Numpad 6 - Strafe Right
Numpad Enter - Duck
Right Ctrl - Jump

I have 2 forward and back as i change hand position to use other functions mapped to all the other numpad buttons without losing mobility

isamu kurosawa · Oct 28, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

Never liked the look of or thought about buying one of those leftie keyboards. Not sure my brain could process the redefined layout after all these years on a standard qwerty.

Forward Arrow - Forward
Back Arrow - Back
Left Arrow - Turn Left
Right Arrow - Turn Right

Numpad 8 - Forward
Numpad 5 - Back
Numpad 4 - Strafe Left
Numpad 6 - Strafe Right
Numpad Enter - Duck
Right Ctrl - Jump

I have 2 forward and back as i change hand position to use other functions mapped to all the other numpad buttons without losing mobility

I used to use the numpad for playing games myself. Till i started playing gw. Now the numpad is used for party targetting, vent keys and xfire commands and i use what i mentioned above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Βєτā™

What we are looking at here guys is how left handed people are looked down upon - Look at the quality of the keyboards these poor people have to put up with...

Tell me about it. The worst thing is most "left handed" items are created by roght handed engineers who just get it completely wrong. I had a left handed can opener once that was just a right handed mechanism constructed in reverse. It tore a sliver of metal out of the side of the can which sliced right through my hand.

Its even worse because im whats known as an "extreme" left handed person. So everything to me is naturally done opposite. as a child it causes problem with ismple tasks such as opening doors (because as far as you are concerned at that age, the door is fitted wrong). You then get mislabelled as a child as clumsy or stupid.
That there is where all the bad rumours about left handed people come from. As a child you have yet to adapt to a right handed world so everything is wrong.

I remember reading an article once of a house built completly left handed. They then had a group of right handed people live there for a month and it caused them to be clumsy, have mood swings and even high aggressiveness. The test was ended early when one of the subjects attacked another.

Its the little things that cause the biggest problem, because they are everywhere they soon add up.

bhavv · Oct 28, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

The Diamondback 3G however is a great mouse for left handed people. Its what i opted for after realising the guild wars branded razer mouse i was gonig to buy was a right hand only mouse. (bad choice there by those in charge)

If my mouse ever fails me i will look at a more modern ambi-mouse from razer, but for not the 3G is just right.

Prior to the Deathadder, all of Razer's designs were ambidexterous, but the mice were very small and could only be gripped with either the fingertip or claw method. This was still better then a right handed mouse for left handed gamers, but for right handed people, it was a lot more uncomfortable then Microsofts right handed mice as the much more comfortable palm technique could not be used.

Following the Razer Copperhead, Razer then developed the technology for, and Microsoft developed the ergonomics for the Microsoft Habu. Microsoft didnt want to make an ambidexterous mouse as their right handed mice were the most comfortable ones available on the market. So we saw a mouse which had technology by Razer, but designed by Microsoft. Around this time, there were a growing number of requests for larger and more comfortable mice from Razer, so with the Deathadder, they actually used the same design from the Habu to listen to these requests - the one that was developed by Microsoft, not by Razer - and made, what for me is the most comfortable and up to date right handed mouse on the market. This was unfair on left handed gamers as they couldnt use these mice, so they released the same technology on the Deathadder in an ambidexterous mouse i.e. the Diamondback 3G.

I am so impressed as a right handed gamer with the Deathadder, that I obviously wish that all mice were like this one. Razer then developed the Lachesis on their own, without influence from Microsofts designs. The Lachesis combined the best of their earlier designs - an ambidexterous approach, but a larger and bulkier body that can be gripped by the palm of either hand. I cannot comment personally on how this design works as I havn't tried it, but if it can be used with the palm, fingertips, or claw technique for both left handed and right handed Gamers, then it is indeed the best designed mouse ever.

But for me, going from a Diamondback to a Deathadder just yesterday felt incredible. As soon as my palm rested fully on the mouse, I felt so much relief from the old days of moving my Diamondback around with just the fingertips.

And yea, I dont really like my Cyber Snipa much either. It had good reviews and reccomendations so I bought it, but the keys are very stiff and hard to press, nowhere near as good as my Saitek Eclipse and new Cyborg are. For me, I m sticking to Saitek Keyboards and Razer mice from now on as they have thoroughly impressed me with the Eclipse + Diamondback for the last few years, and now with the Cyborg + Deathadder which I can see will last for a lot longer because they are just perfect for everything that I need.

For left handed gamers, I think that the Lachesis should be as close to perfect as you can get with a mouse, as for the keyboard, I dont think there is a clear winner, but I also found this and think I will buy one from the money I get from Ebaying my previous stuff:

I have some strange nerve pain in both my hads, although I can still type and play grade 7 piano fine, they are painful when at rest and not doing anything. I think I borked my median nerves from too much keyboard use and need surgery for carpel tunnel syndrome

(I spend almost 24/7 on both the PC and musical keyboard - I gave up two years ago and started again this month because I want to get grade 8). The pain actually started during the time I quit playing, and typing and playing on both keyboards actually relieves it which is just kind of odd.

So I just realised that the Saitek thingy isnt amidexterous because the thumb pad can only be used in the left hand, my bad. So there then the Razer mice, there isnt really many keyboards suited for left handers, but using numpad 8456 for movement is still better because you have your thumb on 0 and pinky on enter, like Ctrl and Space with wasd, plus the 5 other numbers as well. Or if you prefer using the arrow keys, you can that. Typing is still easier with the left hand on a normal keyboard for sure - I used to use my right hand mainly for typing, now I am better with my left and even tap space bar with my left thumb for every space. My left hand types as far as YGB, and my right hand types from UHN and rightwards.

When my left hand is at rest, the fingertips lean on '\ S E F and space bar from left to right, and my right hand feels more comfortable on the numpad then anywhere else.

P.S, goodness this new wrist rest on the Cyborg keyboard is godly comfortable!!! I <3 my new stuff =D. It really makes a huge difference over standard mice and keyboards, even a significant improvement over my Diamondback + Eclipse. And Razer Exactmat + Gel wrist rest is just amazing too. I can type and play all day long without having to stop to rest my hands at all now

Βєτā™ · Oct 29, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I have some strange nerve pain in both my hads, although I can still type and play grade 7 piano fine, they are painful when at rest and not doing anything. I think I borked my median nerves from too much keyboard use and need surgery for carpel tunnel syndrome

I had the same problem here, but it was confirmed as pre-developed signs of arthritis after "clicking" my joints too much. Thats a top to all you gamers, too much mouse/key board will be regretted in your pensioner years when you cant move your goddamn hand because of the immense pain.

I learnt my lesson.

bhavv · Oct 29, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Damn.

More reason to play everyday untill my arms cramp up to hopefully try and become a Pianist (lol funny word) before that happens.

Today I was playing epic fast untill my arm wouldnt move at all from cramp, but it relieves the pain so much. Could it be I developed pain because I stopped playing? No idea and doctors take far too long so I'm still waiting. My right hand is like far beyond Grade 8, and can play anything, but my left is useless in comparison with poor coordination, but im making it better with noticable improvement daily.

Funny that the left hand types faster, but is far behind on the music keyboard.

But since cramping my arms today they are really relieved, same as when I use a powerball...

Oh heck, those are meant to relieve arthritis QQ

But I have used a Razer Exactmat and Gel cushion for ages, and the wrist rest on the Cyborg is just superbly comfortable. I'll start taking Cod Liver Oil pills again for my joints.