Low Level Farming - Page 4 - Guild Wars Forums

Nitradamus · Jul 07, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Where do you get meteor shower?

arnansnow · Jul 07, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitradamus

Where do you get meteor shower?

Ascalon Settlement

Elric · Jul 07, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Pre-Seer is good for Dyes, not so much the pouches though. Go to the Catacombs and you can usualy get some good dyes. But the inability to really trade/sell or move on makes me really hate farming in Pre-Seer.

God of Anarchy · Jul 08, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

honestly i think dye farming in the searing is extremly profitable...there always a noob out the that will sell black dye for 200g,i feel somewhat bad for them,but thats a easy 4.5k in my pocket ,i save all my valubles from the searing and get rid of them in post-searing,after i made my monk i came and sold all my dye and got a hefty 18k...i was happy,it added up with the 12k i had in my bank-30k-and some,felt good-and elric once agian nice post you really are dedicated to helping people,ooo ya i love the icon-FULLMETAL RULES!

Elric · Jul 08, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Ahh yes, the good old days of ripping off new-comers. The main thing is getting money to pay for the cheap dyes. My advice, farm the collectors items. Especialy the one's that can give you your next pieces of armor. Then turn around and sell them. Everyone usualy goes nuttz trying to get the next piece of armor, why not save them the work and make some money while you're at it. ^^

zap · Jul 10, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

To continue on the thought of lower items being valuable....

I have been following the advice given here. It works.

After a couple sessions, I have gained enough gold to buy and sell some too when a deal comes my way.

Now, I have been keeping track of prices and checking them relatively often. I was able to come up with a rock bottom sell price, and top buy price for most of the items I'm interested in right now....just by writing down what I found. In other words...there are trends in general with the prices of smaller things.

Today however has been strange. I have been basically sitting on the material trader for about 5 hours...just checking prices every few minutes. When I first showed up, iron was going for 85/10...cool...ran to storage...by the time I got back...it was 60.

Made me think something was going on so I sat there and watched.

Iron has been bouncing all over from about 75 to a low of 50....no apparent rhyme or reason...except that it did drop 10/10 when I sold off about 200 or so ingots the one time it got back up to 75/10

Fur was interesting also. I have been selling when it is over 3000/10.......it was 2800/10 or so and climbing steadily. I sold half of what I had for about 3143/10 before it started back down. It's still dropping as steadily as it rose earlier.

Parchement was a little funny. It started off at about 670/10...broke 700/10...then bounced all over between about 670 and 600/10. THEN...dropped all the way to 200/10. Why? A few minutes later it was back up to about 570/10 and started rising steadily again after that. It has started to drop after making it back to 600/10.

I have seen a few prices that were completely off the wall when I have been doing my checks. Normally you will see parchment between 600 and 700/10.....but there will be a time when you get a quote and it is more like 20/10. Go figure. Makes me wonder what Anet is up to.

The biggest surprise today however, has been the leather squares. I set a sell price for myself at 1250/10, based on my observations this week. Squares were getting close...so I waited. They were climbing solidly and steadily. Once they broke 1300/10 I was going to sell at the next small drop of 10 or 12 gold /10 squares. Well....they just kept climbing. all the way up to 1483/10 Cool right? Wrong...BANG next check 3 minutes later and the price was 777/10!!!

The price for leather squares dropped like a rock...in 15 minutes it ws down to a low of 411/10. A few minutes later however, it was back at 1377/10. Well, being stupid and slightly gready, I waited thinking it might have been a glitch.

Not so lucky. The price dropped steadily until it got to about 1240 then BANG again...down to 300/10! After a few minutes, it was back to 1162/10...but unfortunately has been dropping steadily ever since.

So I am saying all this here, (aside from the possible entertainment value

) to ask your opinions.

Do you think that Anet has some automatic price check on the materials market to keep it in the 'neighborhood'?

Do you think that there are thousands of guys like me sitting there and all selling at once when they think the price is as high as it is going and that drops the market?

Is the GW 'economy' an actual free market....ruled and powered by the laws of economics....or is this all just a facet of the game that some genius disquised well?

What do you all think??

Oh...and the lesson for today...set a sell price...when you see it...SELL don't WAIT! LOL

Dazzler · Jul 11, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

When I see parchment drop to 200/10 then I usually buy it as the charge is around 650/10 to buy. Then later when I see it above 700/10 I can sell and make a profit

Elric · Jul 11, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Zap, sadly my own research has yielded the same result. I believe it is a mix of both Free Standing Economics and a Self-Sustaining System that Checks itself and keeps prices within a certain range. There is definately a selling floor. This we know for sure. But I also believe there are tons of us that sit around and wait for the price to hit a certain point then sell like mad. I have to do it all the time. So I guess in answer to it all being a pipedream. Probably...maybe...possibley...I don't know. ^^

Allow me, however, to answer your question wth one of my own. As collective Material Farmers, how can we circumvent this issue? If it truely is free-standing, it will hit a point where so many people farm for materials, only the most rare materials will survive the price drops. Thus making it even more difficult for anyone to profit off their work. Which, of course, where "nerfing" comes in. But it is economics, too much supply means more competitive prices(also known as crappy selling prices), so in reality, it isn't REALLY "nerfing" just economic law. So what do we do or how do we prevent that from happening?

zap · Jul 11, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

First, hats off to Anet for creating a system wherein we come to realize and ponder these questions. I don't ever remember an issue like this in Diablo for instance...

The more I think about it, the more I suspect you are right Elric. Maybe not for the same reasons however.

You are correct that if this is a true economy wherein the laws of economics determine pricing, high supply means low prices. Likewise, low supply means higher prices.

As you say, 'nerfing' is a way to control availability or the supply of items. In a free economy that would indeed help to keep prices higher, but in an artificial economy would not be needed at all.

On the other hand, this does not explain the sudden rediculous price drops either. That would not happen reliably in a free economy. There are indeed price 'checks' in the system somewhere.

So, it appears that we actually have some sort of a hybrid system. One that allows free economic rules to a point....then overrides them. It would not be terribly difficult to throw enough rules and randoms into a computer to give the appearance of a free system....until it hits the ceilings or floors.

Which leads me to the other reason I think you are correct. I know some programmers....the good ones will not leave ANYthing alone for long!! They just have to mess and tinker with every program they create.

What is the chance of Anet's crew (who are as talented as they obviously are) leaving ANYTHING to pure CHANCE?? I think the likelyhood of flying to the moon in a cesna is greater!

After all, if this is a free economy, there would be risk of the game going bankrupt without overrides. (though slim if supply side is monitored and controlled by nerfing or other means)

So, to directly answer your question....my guess is from what I know right now, that we can't hurt the GW 'economy' because it only ACTS like an economy. I think we have high and low limits in play and free market works only WITHIN those extremes. I have had a Rune trader tell me they were sold out of a particular item. For crying out lout...it's a friggin computer file....more so just a sprite created in a computer program. The computer can certainly call for more.

I think this is just a very incredibly well done apparent economy that resembles free trade.

(how's that for typing a lot and saying nothing? LOL)

Elric · Jul 11, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Lol, Zap. Very nice. *claps*

I agree with what your saying. Not much different from my perspective at all. But it still boils down to, "How can we, as a whole of farmers, circumvent the system?" If it truely is an "apparent" Free Market, then the same pitfalls of a real Free Market apply. If everyone agreed not to sell below a certain point, then the selling floor would shift to that point, even if the computer did not set it in stone. So keep track of your prices/costs and don't sell unless you get like 200 profit from it. If we all did that(though I know it is unlikely), the market would realign itself to what we do and we would ALWAYS be able to make a good profit for our work. But, that's just my Eudaimonic Theory of Economics. ^^

Fire Of Duragon · Jul 12, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Very good job man, i appreciate the help and info on this topic. As a 2 week player or so at this game, im just now starting to get the hang of the whole farming business. As of now, thankz to you, ive decided maby its time i started to farm. All i have right now is a 17 R/Mo and a 15 Mo/Me but i think ill start off in your locations and hopefully i might be able to move up the the hotsprings area. once again thank you very much for this info =]

zap · Jul 12, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

<G> *takes a virtual bow* LOL

I completely agree with the theory. However, there is one small snag. Depending on what Anet has done in the programming, or decides to do because they are watching this board for instance LOL ........ Perhaps the markets are really NOT free in that respect at all. Maybe there is a program running that just throws random numbers generated by an algorithum with extreme highs and lows....which automatically resets when the highs are hit. Then again....maybe the reset is TIMED...no reason..just time to drop to rock bottom and start again with some deference to the amount of materials being sold by players.

LOL We could tie ourselves up in knots over this for months

The other problem would be that someone will ALWAYS scalp. Why should a low level player hold his stuff for say...800/10 on parchment...when he can nearly always get 700? (well before this past week anyway) After all...maybe his mom only lets him play for an hour after dinner....and he doesn't have time to wait around for the price to go up ...he NEEDS his armor NOW!!

It would be nice to think that we could make that work. I think the idea is valid....if not a little idealistic. I would guess that those who have committed to this sort of farming to make the money they need from the game would WANT to hold until they can get decent prices for stuff. If those who farm regularly and well....hold for good prices, it would appear that doing so would cause higher prices within the apparent economic cycles of the game.

But, think charr hides for a sec. Not everyone knows how to make money on them. However, a sort of ceiling for what they are worth is there among those who buy them. I have only seen one person offering more than 50g each. There is no reason someone couldn't offer 100g each....other than they would loose money on the deal. So, 50g is what charr hides have come to be worth among PLAYERS....luckily, there appears to be no compitition with the computer on this one comodity

IF the game were set up in that manner....where the sale of normal materials was done person to person and they then crafted them into something more profitable, I suspect the same thing would happen. The player/traders would set a ceiling for the value above which they know they would not be guaranteed to make any coin on the deal.

As it is....I think we are stuck just enjoying this part of the game (when we aren't B###hing about it)...makes it more interesting and fun I think. I do the buy/sell thing in real life ...so its a blast for me in the game.

Faith the Insane · Jul 12, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Very nice , thank you.
Gonna try this tomorrow.

Mavrik · Jul 12, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Because there was so much incredible content in here to read, I skipped some of it to post a little tip of my own. Then I'm going to read all of this and try it out for myself as I am in need of money having finally gotten to Raknor forge(sp)

Good place to farm in Charr infested lands is the Temple area where you get Althea's Ashes. I'm lv 18 E/Mo now so this is not to difficult to do. Leave from the courthouse and proceed to the temple area. If you want, run past those Devourer cause they are really just a pain in the butt and not really to threatoning. Or kill them for some items if you wish. Now get into the temple and go group by group in there. I take an expert salvage kit and a regular one + Identify kit. Now out of the 5 farming trips I have done through there, I have gotten 4 runes (2 Necromancer, 2 Mesmer) as well as 4 dyes (purple, red, 2 orange) PLUS a ton of Char carvings, armor, items and my fav, Mind Spark armor droppings. Those spark armor turn into silk and linen more times then tanned hide squares or other materials. Now I have every bag filled by the time I'm through one pass there. Salvage everything possible, go into Dragons Gull(sp)? then go back into the Temple to reset the charr and go at it again if you dare.

Elric · Jul 12, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Faith and Fire, my pleasure and good hunting. ^^

Zap....YEAH FOR ECONOMICS!! lol, sorry. Anyway, yeah, the idea is totaly idealistic. There will always be a group of people that will pay less, as you said, because they "need" it.

Now the Charr Hides is an itneresting comment. I think theya re set at what they because they aren't really a part of the computers economic program. They aren't included in the Materials Equation because they realy aren't. They are more on the Support side of Supply. You need them to make the supplies you need to make money. It's just outside the calculation. But it still has to be heald by the laws of what profit it CAN create.

So if a piece of Fur goes for 250, and the standard eveyrone uses is trading the Hides in at the Vendor in Ascalon at 4 hides for 1 Fur, then it would cost you 200 to buy enough to make 250 off of one piece of Fur. Not part of the equation, but still governed by it. Everyone needs to make a profit. If you offered 100 per Hide then you're losing money, so 50 is an acceptable range for no work and 50 profit in the end.

But what would happen if the trade in became 5 Hides for 1 Fur? The WHOLE equation for Fur would get thrown out of whack and they would sell for even less because the standard has now been reqritten. Even if it isn't governed by the Material Trader's Rules/Equations.

Yeah, we could go round and round like this forever. But its good to bounce these things back and forth with someone. ^^ Maybe if we keep doing it we can figure out whatthe system is really doing. IMHO, though, I don't believe we could ever really know if the system resets itself or not. So many people on at so many times, it's impossible for a handful of people to track. Doesn't make it any less fun to try though! lol

Nitradamus · Jul 12, 2005, 12:46 PM // 12:46

OK, I made a W/Mo for farming, and i'm wondering what lvl i should be, and what build i should use on the Piken Square?

zap · Jul 12, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitradamus

OK, I made a W/Mo for farming, and i'm wondering what lvl i should be, and what build i should use on the Piken Square?

I'm a warrior/ranger at level 15

zap · Jul 12, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elric

Now the Charr Hides is an itneresting comment. I think theya re set at what they because they aren't really a part of the computers economic program. They aren't included in the Materials Equation because they realy aren't. They are more on the Support side of Supply. You need them to make the supplies you need to make money. It's just outside the calculation. But it still has to be heald by the laws of what profit it CAN create.

Exactly my thought as well. That is what I was meaning that if all the other 'materials' were just outside the prices regulated by the traders....free economics would likely have more to do with the prices.

Imagine if say leather squares were REQUIRED to make carry bags from. You could not buy the bags at the trader...but only have them crafted...and you could sell them either to players or material traders after that. I suspect the price for leather squares would be higher, and more stable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elric

So if a piece of Fur goes for 250, and the standard eveyrone uses is trading the Hides in at the Vendor in Ascalon at 4 hides for 1 Fur, then it would cost you 200 to buy enough to make 250 off of one piece of Fur. Not part of the equation, but still governed by it. Everyone needs to make a profit. If you offered 100 per Hide then you're losing money, so 50 is an acceptable range for no work and 50 profit in the end.

*nod*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elric

But what would happen if the trade in became 5 Hides for 1 Fur? The WHOLE equation for Fur would get thrown out of whack and they would sell for even less because the standard has now been reqritten. Even if it isn't governed by the Material Trader's Rules/Equations.

.....similar to nerfing...this would be a supply side control over an apparent free economy in the game. Anet can certianly control the number of items that drop...and the likelyhood or chance of a certain rare item dropping. Why?

Likewise, for some common items like charr hides, they drop often...and one of the more profitable items in the game that can be sold (when prices are up a bit) can only be made from them through a crafter elsewhere in the game. That creates a true free market in the trade of charr hides. Anet doesn't control what players can pay for the hides....but can only control how many hides drop...and what the traders will pay for fur withing the economic cycles of the game.

Yer exactly right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elric

Yeah, we could go round and round like this forever. But its good to bounce these things back and forth with someone. ^^ Maybe if we keep doing it we can figure out whatthe system is really doing. IMHO, though, I don't believe we could ever really know if the system resets itself or not. So many people on at so many times, it's impossible for a handful of people to track. Doesn't make it any less fun to try though! lol

I agree....I think it adds a new facet to the game. LOL but I used to fly my astoroids space ship sides ways on purpose too ROFL

zap · Jul 12, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

.....In case you still are not convinced that there are resets in the price of the materials scheme....

I just went in to check prices at 1124 ....fur is selling from the RMT for 310 each...and the bid there is 208 each.

Then as I always do, I check the MT....fur is selling for 2493/10.....but the bid is 100/10!!!!

(yes...I looked TWICE LOL)

Mavrik · Jul 12, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zap

.....In case you still are not convinced that there are resets in the price of the materials scheme....

I just went in to check prices at 1124 ....fur is selling from the RMT for 310 each...and the bid there is 208 each.

Then as I always do, I check the MT....fur is selling for 2493/10.....but the bid is 100/10!!!!

(yes...I looked TWICE LOL)

Furs yesterday were selling for 2722g for 10 in Raknor. So I sold all the ones I had.

Jul 07, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03	#61
Nitradamus Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway! Guild: The Demonic Brotherhood Profession: N/E	Where do you get meteor shower?

Jul 07, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28	#63
Elric Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Purgatory Guild: The Holy Lotus Archive	Pre-Seer is good for Dyes, not so much the pouches though. Go to the Catacombs and you can usualy get some good dyes. But the inability to really trade/sell or move on makes me really hate farming in Pre-Seer.

Jul 08, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27	#64
God of Anarchy Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Florida Guild: Godz Of Anarchy Profession: N/E	honestly i think dye farming in the searing is extremly profitable...there always a noob out the that will sell black dye for 200g,i feel somewhat bad for them,but thats a easy 4.5k in my pocket ,i save all my valubles from the searing and get rid of them in post-searing,after i made my monk i came and sold all my dye and got a hefty 18k...i was happy,it added up with the 12k i had in my bank-30k-and some,felt good-and elric once agian nice post you really are dedicated to helping people,ooo ya i love the icon-FULLMETAL RULES!

Jul 08, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37	#65
Elric Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Purgatory Guild: The Holy Lotus Archive	Ahh yes, the good old days of ripping off new-comers. The main thing is getting money to pay for the cheap dyes. My advice, farm the collectors items. Especialy the one's that can give you your next pieces of armor. Then turn around and sell them. Everyone usualy goes nuttz trying to get the next piece of armor, why not save them the work and make some money while you're at it. ^^

Jul 10, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17	#66
zap Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Nope Profession: W/R	To continue on the thought of lower items being valuable.... I have been following the advice given here. It works. After a couple sessions, I have gained enough gold to buy and sell some too when a deal comes my way. Now, I have been keeping track of prices and checking them relatively often. I was able to come up with a rock bottom sell price, and top buy price for most of the items I'm interested in right now....just by writing down what I found. In other words...there are trends in general with the prices of smaller things. Today however has been strange. I have been basically sitting on the material trader for about 5 hours...just checking prices every few minutes. When I first showed up, iron was going for 85/10...cool...ran to storage...by the time I got back...it was 60. Made me think something was going on so I sat there and watched. Iron has been bouncing all over from about 75 to a low of 50....no apparent rhyme or reason...except that it did drop 10/10 when I sold off about 200 or so ingots the one time it got back up to 75/10 Fur was interesting also. I have been selling when it is over 3000/10.......it was 2800/10 or so and climbing steadily. I sold half of what I had for about 3143/10 before it started back down. It's still dropping as steadily as it rose earlier. Parchement was a little funny. It started off at about 670/10...broke 700/10...then bounced all over between about 670 and 600/10. THEN...dropped all the way to 200/10. Why? A few minutes later it was back up to about 570/10 and started rising steadily again after that. It has started to drop after making it back to 600/10. I have seen a few prices that were completely off the wall when I have been doing my checks. Normally you will see parchment between 600 and 700/10.....but there will be a time when you get a quote and it is more like 20/10. Go figure. Makes me wonder what Anet is up to. The biggest surprise today however, has been the leather squares. I set a sell price for myself at 1250/10, based on my observations this week. Squares were getting close...so I waited. They were climbing solidly and steadily. Once they broke 1300/10 I was going to sell at the next small drop of 10 or 12 gold /10 squares. Well....they just kept climbing. all the way up to 1483/10 Cool right? Wrong...BANG next check 3 minutes later and the price was 777/10!!! The price for leather squares dropped like a rock...in 15 minutes it ws down to a low of 411/10. A few minutes later however, it was back at 1377/10. Well, being stupid and slightly gready, I waited thinking it might have been a glitch. Not so lucky. The price dropped steadily until it got to about 1240 then BANG again...down to 300/10! After a few minutes, it was back to 1162/10...but unfortunately has been dropping steadily ever since. So I am saying all this here, (aside from the possible entertainment value ) to ask your opinions. Do you think that Anet has some automatic price check on the materials market to keep it in the 'neighborhood'? Do you think that there are thousands of guys like me sitting there and all selling at once when they think the price is as high as it is going and that drops the market? Is the GW 'economy' an actual free market....ruled and powered by the laws of economics....or is this all just a facet of the game that some genius disquised well? What do you all think?? Oh...and the lesson for today...set a sell price...when you see it...SELL don't WAIT! LOL

Jul 11, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21	#67
Dazzler Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Profession: E/Me	When I see parchment drop to 200/10 then I usually buy it as the charge is around 650/10 to buy. Then later when I see it above 700/10 I can sell and make a profit

Jul 11, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20	#68
Elric Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Purgatory Guild: The Holy Lotus Archive	Zap, sadly my own research has yielded the same result. I believe it is a mix of both Free Standing Economics and a Self-Sustaining System that Checks itself and keeps prices within a certain range. There is definately a selling floor. This we know for sure. But I also believe there are tons of us that sit around and wait for the price to hit a certain point then sell like mad. I have to do it all the time. So I guess in answer to it all being a pipedream. Probably...maybe...possibley...I don't know. ^^ Allow me, however, to answer your question wth one of my own. As collective Material Farmers, how can we circumvent this issue? If it truely is free-standing, it will hit a point where so many people farm for materials, only the most rare materials will survive the price drops. Thus making it even more difficult for anyone to profit off their work. Which, of course, where "nerfing" comes in. But it is economics, too much supply means more competitive prices(also known as crappy selling prices), so in reality, it isn't REALLY "nerfing" just economic law. So what do we do or how do we prevent that from happening?

Jul 11, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14	#69
zap Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Nope Profession: W/R	First, hats off to Anet for creating a system wherein we come to realize and ponder these questions. I don't ever remember an issue like this in Diablo for instance... The more I think about it, the more I suspect you are right Elric. Maybe not for the same reasons however. You are correct that if this is a true economy wherein the laws of economics determine pricing, high supply means low prices. Likewise, low supply means higher prices. As you say, 'nerfing' is a way to control availability or the supply of items. In a free economy that would indeed help to keep prices higher, but in an artificial economy would not be needed at all. On the other hand, this does not explain the sudden rediculous price drops either. That would not happen reliably in a free economy. There are indeed price 'checks' in the system somewhere. So, it appears that we actually have some sort of a hybrid system. One that allows free economic rules to a point....then overrides them. It would not be terribly difficult to throw enough rules and randoms into a computer to give the appearance of a free system....until it hits the ceilings or floors. Which leads me to the other reason I think you are correct. I know some programmers....the good ones will not leave ANYthing alone for long!! They just have to mess and tinker with every program they create. What is the chance of Anet's crew (who are as talented as they obviously are) leaving ANYTHING to pure CHANCE?? I think the likelyhood of flying to the moon in a cesna is greater! After all, if this is a free economy, there would be risk of the game going bankrupt without overrides. (though slim if supply side is monitored and controlled by nerfing or other means) So, to directly answer your question....my guess is from what I know right now, that we can't hurt the GW 'economy' because it only ACTS like an economy. I think we have high and low limits in play and free market works only WITHIN those extremes. I have had a Rune trader tell me they were sold out of a particular item. For crying out lout...it's a friggin computer file....more so just a sprite created in a computer program. The computer can certainly call for more. I think this is just a very incredibly well done apparent economy that resembles free trade. (how's that for typing a lot and saying nothing? LOL)

Jul 11, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58	#70
Elric Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Purgatory Guild: The Holy Lotus Archive	Lol, Zap. Very nice. claps I agree with what your saying. Not much different from my perspective at all. But it still boils down to, "How can we, as a whole of farmers, circumvent the system?" If it truely is an "apparent" Free Market, then the same pitfalls of a real Free Market apply. If everyone agreed not to sell below a certain point, then the selling floor would shift to that point, even if the computer did not set it in stone. So keep track of your prices/costs and don't sell unless you get like 200 profit from it. If we all did that(though I know it is unlikely), the market would realign itself to what we do and we would ALWAYS be able to make a good profit for our work. But, that's just my Eudaimonic Theory of Economics. ^^

Jul 12, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02	#71
Fire Of Duragon Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Profession: R/Mo	Very good job man, i appreciate the help and info on this topic. As a 2 week player or so at this game, im just now starting to get the hang of the whole farming business. As of now, thankz to you, ive decided maby its time i started to farm. All i have right now is a 17 R/Mo and a 15 Mo/Me but i think ill start off in your locations and hopefully i might be able to move up the the hotsprings area. once again thank you very much for this info =]

Jul 12, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43	#72
zap Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Nope Profession: W/R	<G> takes a virtual bow LOL I completely agree with the theory. However, there is one small snag. Depending on what Anet has done in the programming, or decides to do because they are watching this board for instance LOL ........ Perhaps the markets are really NOT free in that respect at all. Maybe there is a program running that just throws random numbers generated by an algorithum with extreme highs and lows....which automatically resets when the highs are hit. Then again....maybe the reset is TIMED...no reason..just time to drop to rock bottom and start again with some deference to the amount of materials being sold by players. LOL We could tie ourselves up in knots over this for months The other problem would be that someone will ALWAYS scalp. Why should a low level player hold his stuff for say...800/10 on parchment...when he can nearly always get 700? (well before this past week anyway) After all...maybe his mom only lets him play for an hour after dinner....and he doesn't have time to wait around for the price to go up ...he NEEDS his armor NOW!! It would be nice to think that we could make that work. I think the idea is valid....if not a little idealistic. I would guess that those who have committed to this sort of farming to make the money they need from the game would WANT to hold until they can get decent prices for stuff. If those who farm regularly and well....hold for good prices, it would appear that doing so would cause higher prices within the apparent economic cycles of the game. But, think charr hides for a sec. Not everyone knows how to make money on them. However, a sort of ceiling for what they are worth is there among those who buy them. I have only seen one person offering more than 50g each. There is no reason someone couldn't offer 100g each....other than they would loose money on the deal. So, 50g is what charr hides have come to be worth among PLAYERS....luckily, there appears to be no compitition with the computer on this one comodity IF the game were set up in that manner....where the sale of normal materials was done person to person and they then crafted them into something more profitable, I suspect the same thing would happen. The player/traders would set a ceiling for the value above which they know they would not be guaranteed to make any coin on the deal. As it is....I think we are stuck just enjoying this part of the game (when we aren't B###hing about it)...makes it more interesting and fun I think. I do the buy/sell thing in real life ...so its a blast for me in the game.

Jul 12, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22	#73
Faith the Insane Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005	Very nice , thank you. Gonna try this tomorrow.

Jul 12, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50	#74
Mavrik Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Alaska	Because there was so much incredible content in here to read, I skipped some of it to post a little tip of my own. Then I'm going to read all of this and try it out for myself as I am in need of money having finally gotten to Raknor forge(sp) Good place to farm in Charr infested lands is the Temple area where you get Althea's Ashes. I'm lv 18 E/Mo now so this is not to difficult to do. Leave from the courthouse and proceed to the temple area. If you want, run past those Devourer cause they are really just a pain in the butt and not really to threatoning. Or kill them for some items if you wish. Now get into the temple and go group by group in there. I take an expert salvage kit and a regular one + Identify kit. Now out of the 5 farming trips I have done through there, I have gotten 4 runes (2 Necromancer, 2 Mesmer) as well as 4 dyes (purple, red, 2 orange) PLUS a ton of Char carvings, armor, items and my fav, Mind Spark armor droppings. Those spark armor turn into silk and linen more times then tanned hide squares or other materials. Now I have every bag filled by the time I'm through one pass there. Salvage everything possible, go into Dragons Gull(sp)? then go back into the Temple to reset the charr and go at it again if you dare.

Jul 12, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53	#75
Elric Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Purgatory Guild: The Holy Lotus Archive	Faith and Fire, my pleasure and good hunting. ^^ Zap....YEAH FOR ECONOMICS!! lol, sorry. Anyway, yeah, the idea is totaly idealistic. There will always be a group of people that will pay less, as you said, because they "need" it. Now the Charr Hides is an itneresting comment. I think theya re set at what they because they aren't really a part of the computers economic program. They aren't included in the Materials Equation because they realy aren't. They are more on the Support side of Supply. You need them to make the supplies you need to make money. It's just outside the calculation. But it still has to be heald by the laws of what profit it CAN create. So if a piece of Fur goes for 250, and the standard eveyrone uses is trading the Hides in at the Vendor in Ascalon at 4 hides for 1 Fur, then it would cost you 200 to buy enough to make 250 off of one piece of Fur. Not part of the equation, but still governed by it. Everyone needs to make a profit. If you offered 100 per Hide then you're losing money, so 50 is an acceptable range for no work and 50 profit in the end. But what would happen if the trade in became 5 Hides for 1 Fur? The WHOLE equation for Fur would get thrown out of whack and they would sell for even less because the standard has now been reqritten. Even if it isn't governed by the Material Trader's Rules/Equations. Yeah, we could go round and round like this forever. But its good to bounce these things back and forth with someone. ^^ Maybe if we keep doing it we can figure out whatthe system is really doing. IMHO, though, I don't believe we could ever really know if the system resets itself or not. So many people on at so many times, it's impossible for a handful of people to track. Doesn't make it any less fun to try though! lol

Jul 12, 2005, 12:46 PM // 12:46	#76
Nitradamus Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway! Guild: The Demonic Brotherhood Profession: N/E	OK, I made a W/Mo for farming, and i'm wondering what lvl i should be, and what build i should use on the Piken Square?

Jul 12, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29	#79
zap Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Nope Profession: W/R	.....In case you still are not convinced that there are resets in the price of the materials scheme.... I just went in to check prices at 1124 ....fur is selling from the RMT for 310 each...and the bid there is 208 each. Then as I always do, I check the MT....fur is selling for 2493/10.....but the bid is 100/10!!!! (yes...I looked TWICE LOL)