Treasure system taking a piss? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Jessyi · Feb 18, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I get the feeling that the spirit of this thread was never *really* to unsensibly bash the random nature of the program's mathematics...

no no no...

Rather, I get the feeling that the author (like I'm sure many of us have wished for in the past) is simply longing for *some kind* of Anti-BS system. For example, perhaps the game could give special consideration to you based on your drop successes in the past. It doesn't have to be a multiple-month span. Maybe 24 hours...maybe just THAT run.

For example, I had this idea: In FoW, if you get a shard drop, then the next time that a shard drops with your name on it, the game will re-roll who the shard goes to in accordance with the number of shard drops you already have. So if you already have one shard drop, and another shard drops with your name on it, the game re-rolls it. If it goes to you again, then you get it. Still, that kind of a system would drasticly reduce the amount of "that guy got 5 shards and I still have 0" kind of horsecrap that seems to abound everywhere I go.

Does that kind of suggestion have problems? In a word, yes. But it's wishful thinking.

-Jessyi

=HT=Ingram · Feb 18, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Its important to realize that you can nerf your favorite farming location for yourself rather quickly by ONLY doing the same thing Over and over and over again...

Example of this... New underworld. OK lets say you go down first time and pickup a few greens... Next time maybe some ectos but no greens...
Next time Little to nothing
Next time little to nothing
Next time maybe some ecto
next time little to nothing
next time maybe a green and 1 ecto
next time nothing...
and nothing and nothing..

Now...

That is fact eventually doing the same run will nerf your drops and hurts drops for entire party... I don't farm much but when I do, I never do the same run more then twice in a row. and I go with a fresh group... meaning not a group that has been doing it all day...

End result.

A green item almost every time I go to SF (not too often)

A green or ecto at least every time I go to tombs... (Again Not often, prob less then anything else really)

The important thing however is to not farm an area to death... Mix things up... DO a few missions play some PvP, Something... Then go back to farming in short mixed runs... Never same run more then two times in a row... (its actually setup better then that example, but for me twice is enough... I think its 5 times actually, before it gets nerfed for you)

What happens is lets say people farm SF... and drops fall off so they quit playing for the day. Without playing any other areas...

Then they come back the next day for more of the same. well the area they were in last time they logged in... Well.. gee its all nerf for you since you farmed it out... and joining a farming party now just reduces everyone chances of drops... And a party of many of these kinds well that just makes it worse...

For the best results, to this with some guildies and schedule out where you've been and figure your parties optimal farming location... Either that or go do something else for a while to reset your nerfed farm locations...

This system ensures that not TOO many of the rare items get distributed in the game... I mean if EVERYONE has one... is it really rare? Thinking of FDS for example... It was a rare in the beginning but truthfully its rather common that people have them.. and they drop pretty easy in fire islands. so in reality its not worth anything except to those that want them. Like the new people playing in ascalon area missions...

IDS is about the same. Everyone knows where to get them now, so there really is no reason to go buying one for inflated prices, when its a simple process to get one with a minimal or solo party...

Crystalline swds... still highly valued, and are actually RARES... For now...

Fell Blades... while cool looking, are again more common to find then not... So rare status should be revoked...

Same can be said for storm bows, and eternal or chaos weapons...

I still think the way to solve for Greens and such is to make it so that every character will be able to receive every green as a drop ONCE and only once... thus if its been found and you don't want it and go and sell it, well that was your chance at that item on that character... period...

But if its a item you want you will treasure it even more as you will know you will never see it drop for you again on that character...

manitoba1073 · Feb 18, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

or if u in a group ppl can just share the drops

like that will happen. however i have noticed a few small details in old UW if u do the ecto dance ur odds increase 50% on ecto drops, maybe do a little jig every now and then. like when i was farminng ettins. never got a sup abs.
then accidently killed one of the lynxs and BAM in a span of 15 mins got 3. do something randomly with ur characters. doesnt hurt

Stealthy Trapper · Feb 18, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

This is why this post should get closed soon. First you have people bashing something that is totally legit. Now we have people giving out FALSE INFORMATION (ecto dance,come on), you can't do anything to increase your drop rate other than not farming the same place over and over again. If you attack first it won't change anything, if you use good skills it won't change, if you check a chest last it won't change anything. I am not complaining about people bashing the system except the fact that when I first joined this forum I got bashed for giving false info. Thats all this thread can do is start false rumors when all you have to do is remember everything is random. There is no conspiracy theory.

Oh and thanks Athis, hope I do too......:-)

Francis Crawford · Feb 18, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

If you want to look for "conspiracies," hypothesize that Arenanet has mathematically incompetent programmers, who somehow haven't made things as random as they thought they did.

I think that's a silly theory, but it's a little less silly than most of the others.

Now, seriously, as anybody done any good analysis of how quickly things get nerfed and, more important, how much/what you have to do to unnerf them for yourself?

disarm76 · Feb 18, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

A friend of Mine went to Ruin of HoH 4 times and got 3 Bulwark!
I Went there 20 times, got one bulwark and for 10 times I got nothing.

Oh, yes, that's random!

kc99 · Feb 18, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

I still think the way to solve for Greens and such is to make it so that every character will be able to receive every green as a drop ONCE and only once... thus if its been found and you don't want it and go and sell it, well that was your chance at that item on that character... period...

But if its a item you want you will treasure it even more as you will know you will never see it drop for you again on that character...

/Agree

Now just gimme that bow!

aB- · Feb 18, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by disarm76

A friend of Mine went to Ruin of HoH 4 times and got 3 Bulwark!
I Went there 20 times, got one bulwark and for 10 times I got nothing.

Oh, yes, that's random!

If you both did 1000 runs, both of you would get an equal amount of bulwark's. A thread like this pops up every week, maybe even every day. YES, the drop system is random. NO, the drops are not biased. It's like flipping a coin. After 2 or 3 tries, maybe even after 20-30 tries you could have a lobsided number of heads versus tails. But after more and more time, the amount of tails would be closer and closer to the amount of heads.

romeo_longsword · Feb 23, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Okay, I have furthered my experienced with the "ramdom" treasure syste drop.

Personally, from my experience, I find that there is a pattern in such "ramdomness", therefore, I disagree with the following message:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthy Trapper

Here we go with another rant and rave thread.

I looked up the word RANDOM in the dictionary to clarify things to people AGAIN..............

RANDOM- Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective.

AT RANDOM- Without a governing design, method, or purpose; unsystematically.

The system is never going whacky , never out to get you, never different from one day to the next

Beside, he sounded rather imature, lol.

Back to the subject. I have been to the UW, 7 times on a roll with no green drop.

And from some of the comments here, there is a player who usually get runes of health from his farming experience, and some players who I oftern hunt with, have been getting the victos blade but nothing else form the tomb, and many players who oftern get the Kole's Gauntlet so oftern that, they dont miind giving them away upon finding them, these are pattern, which in my view is not so ramdom.

led-zep · Feb 23, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

the drop rate is always lower for people who call Tombs 'The Underworld'

mickyo5 · Feb 23, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

hi guy i have been playing this game for 4 months now. farming in north kryta and s/f. Looking for green sword superior vigor and superior absorbsion. i havent had any green dops yet and have in total only foung 5 gold runes. what am i doing wrong?

baz777 · Feb 23, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Well my luck is pretty consistent, in FOW I???m always lucky enough to pick up more dust than any other player in the team

quickmonty · Feb 23, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Random is as random does (Forrest Gump)

If you toss a coin 20 times and 20 times it comes up heads, what are the odds that it will come up heads the next toss?

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
........................................... 50% Coins don't have a memory. It is *random*

Kylista · Feb 23, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Ok, seriously, can someone confirm that farming an area over and over again causes less drops (and I mean logging in and out, not just rezoning)? Also if that can be confirmed, does that penality ever go away even if you continue to farm the same area again or does it get worse and worse? I know everyone is saying just go somewhere else and play a little and come back to farming, but for long do you need to be away from your favorite farm zone? Is it time based, monsters killed based, experience points accumulated based, etc?

I know everyone says this, but is there proof (Anet statement, Gaile reference, etc...) Just curious because if that's the truth than the drops are not random because it is based upon how many times you've been there....

I did see that Gaile mentioned, when SF came out, than rezoning in and out of furnace would decrease the drop rate but he did not specify that farming an area would do that, only rezoning and that rezoning affected the entire team not a single person....

SnoopJeDi · Feb 23, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthy Trapper

I have been working at the same place for ten years and, I pass the same gas station on the way everyday (5 day work week) for 10 years. When I get gas at that gas station (2x a week) I throw $5 on the largest paying lottery, with RANDOM numbers. Never have I won. Yet some guy two states over from my home places one dollar one time and wins over 50 million dollars. To top that off he was already wealthy from his fathers estate.

DO YOU HERE ME SAYING THERE MUST BE SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE LOTTERY SYSTEM??? NOPE!

yet I cotinue to farm the same gas station to this day. Hoping to get LUCKY for the lottery to RANDOMLY draw my number.
Wish I could close this thread. Oh well it will happen soon.....lol

That's a very inaccurate comparison. A more accurate analogy is playing the scratch-off cards. Sometimes, you get $5, sometimes, you get $1, sometimes you get $1,000,000, and sometimes you get bup-kiss. Even that can't quite compare to the system in GW, given the economy, the stats on weapons, yada yada, but it's as close as that kind of example is going to get.

You could statistically analyze this system, if you had enough people reporting ACCURATE statistics on their drops, and controlled variables like environments and professions, all that garbage.

I personally believe that the drop system incorporates chance, but I refuse to accept that it's 100% random, because it's a load given the circumstances. There's just no way drawing random integers (the way the lottery works) could yield such a skewed system with complex conditionals and outcomes (the way the drop system works).

I have no idea how it works though. That's the idea. If ANet told us, we'd circumvent it easily. If you REALLY crave to know, start doing analysis, testing variables like different accounts, different professions, different weapon/skill setups, different characters (the random-roll theory), and anything else you can think of. Unless you're planning on doing that, you should can it and go play (if this obsessive farming can be justified as so) the game.

Stealthy Trapper · Feb 23, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Wow you play this game almost everyday since the day it comes out and you try to leave some insight to other players that think the game is out to get them. What do you get? People quoting you and coming up with moronic ideas why their drops suck and others don't.

Seriously people even if there was a system that gave one person better drops than the other, someone would eventually figure it out( there was over a million copies of GW sold last year you know), and a-net would change it or nerf drops in all. Its the facts of life, some people get a better life than others. Just play the game and enjoy it. You are not going to get better drops if you carry a lucky rabbits foot or any other luck charm. One day you will get your share of ectos and another day someone else will get their share.

Come on admin. this crying has gone on long enough. Please close this thread. Threads that go on and on with no factual information in them is probably why it takes ten minutes to open a page when we are on this forum.

Feb 18, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34	#22
=HT=Ingram Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Anchorage Alaska Guild: Haz Team [HT] Profession: R/W	Its important to realize that you can nerf your favorite farming location for yourself rather quickly by ONLY doing the same thing Over and over and over again... Example of this... New underworld. OK lets say you go down first time and pickup a few greens... Next time maybe some ectos but no greens... Next time Little to nothing Next time little to nothing Next time maybe some ecto next time little to nothing next time maybe a green and 1 ecto next time nothing... and nothing and nothing.. Now... That is fact eventually doing the same run will nerf your drops and hurts drops for entire party... I don't farm much but when I do, I never do the same run more then twice in a row. and I go with a fresh group... meaning not a group that has been doing it all day... End result. A green item almost every time I go to SF (not too often) A green or ecto at least every time I go to tombs... (Again Not often, prob less then anything else really) The important thing however is to not farm an area to death... Mix things up... DO a few missions play some PvP, Something... Then go back to farming in short mixed runs... Never same run more then two times in a row... (its actually setup better then that example, but for me twice is enough... I think its 5 times actually, before it gets nerfed for you) What happens is lets say people farm SF... and drops fall off so they quit playing for the day. Without playing any other areas... Then they come back the next day for more of the same. well the area they were in last time they logged in... Well.. gee its all nerf for you since you farmed it out... and joining a farming party now just reduces everyone chances of drops... And a party of many of these kinds well that just makes it worse... For the best results, to this with some guildies and schedule out where you've been and figure your parties optimal farming location... Either that or go do something else for a while to reset your nerfed farm locations... This system ensures that not TOO many of the rare items get distributed in the game... I mean if EVERYONE has one... is it really rare? Thinking of FDS for example... It was a rare in the beginning but truthfully its rather common that people have them.. and they drop pretty easy in fire islands. so in reality its not worth anything except to those that want them. Like the new people playing in ascalon area missions... IDS is about the same. Everyone knows where to get them now, so there really is no reason to go buying one for inflated prices, when its a simple process to get one with a minimal or solo party... Crystalline swds... still highly valued, and are actually RARES... For now... Fell Blades... while cool looking, are again more common to find then not... So rare status should be revoked... Same can be said for storm bows, and eternal or chaos weapons... I still think the way to solve for Greens and such is to make it so that every character will be able to receive every green as a drop ONCE and only once... thus if its been found and you don't want it and go and sell it, well that was your chance at that item on that character... period... But if its a item you want you will treasure it even more as you will know you will never see it drop for you again on that character... Last edited by =HT=Ingram; Feb 18, 2006 at 08:46 AM // 08:46..

Feb 23, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#34
Kylista Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005	Ok, seriously, can someone confirm that farming an area over and over again causes less drops (and I mean logging in and out, not just rezoning)? Also if that can be confirmed, does that penality ever go away even if you continue to farm the same area again or does it get worse and worse? I know everyone is saying just go somewhere else and play a little and come back to farming, but for long do you need to be away from your favorite farm zone? Is it time based, monsters killed based, experience points accumulated based, etc? I know everyone says this, but is there proof (Anet statement, Gaile reference, etc...) Just curious because if that's the truth than the drops are not random because it is based upon how many times you've been there.... I did see that Gaile mentioned, when SF came out, than rezoning in and out of furnace would decrease the drop rate but he did not specify that farming an area would do that, only rezoning and that rezoning affected the entire team not a single person.... Last edited by Kylista; Feb 23, 2006 at 04:30 PM // 16:30..

Feb 18, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#21
Jessyi Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: Mo/	I get the feeling that the spirit of this thread was never really to unsensibly bash the random nature of the program's mathematics... no no no... Rather, I get the feeling that the author (like I'm sure many of us have wished for in the past) is simply longing for some kind of Anti-BS system. For example, perhaps the game could give special consideration to you based on your drop successes in the past. It doesn't have to be a multiple-month span. Maybe 24 hours...maybe just THAT run. For example, I had this idea: In FoW, if you get a shard drop, then the next time that a shard drops with your name on it, the game will re-roll who the shard goes to in accordance with the number of shard drops you already have. So if you already have one shard drop, and another shard drops with your name on it, the game re-rolls it. If it goes to you again, then you get it. Still, that kind of a system would drasticly reduce the amount of "that guy got 5 shards and I still have 0" kind of horsecrap that seems to abound everywhere I go. Does that kind of suggestion have problems? In a word, yes. But it's wishful thinking. -Jessyi

Feb 18, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40	#23
manitoba1073 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station Guild: (SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi	or if u in a group ppl can just share the drops like that will happen. however i have noticed a few small details in old UW if u do the ecto dance ur odds increase 50% on ecto drops, maybe do a little jig every now and then. like when i was farminng ettins. never got a sup abs. then accidently killed one of the lynxs and BAM in a span of 15 mins got 3. do something randomly with ur characters. doesnt hurt

Feb 18, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22	#24
Stealthy Trapper Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Guild: Knights Assassins [Kill] Profession: R/	This is why this post should get closed soon. First you have people bashing something that is totally legit. Now we have people giving out FALSE INFORMATION (ecto dance,come on), you can't do anything to increase your drop rate other than not farming the same place over and over again. If you attack first it won't change anything, if you use good skills it won't change, if you check a chest last it won't change anything. I am not complaining about people bashing the system except the fact that when I first joined this forum I got bashed for giving false info. Thats all this thread can do is start false rumors when all you have to do is remember everything is random. There is no conspiracy theory. Oh and thanks Athis, hope I do too......:-)

Feb 18, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28	#25
Francis Crawford Forge Runner Join Date: Dec 2005	If you want to look for "conspiracies," hypothesize that Arenanet has mathematically incompetent programmers, who somehow haven't made things as random as they thought they did. I think that's a silly theory, but it's a little less silly than most of the others. Now, seriously, as anybody done any good analysis of how quickly things get nerfed and, more important, how much/what you have to do to unnerf them for yourself?

Feb 18, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56	#26
disarm76 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Portugal	A friend of Mine went to Ruin of HoH 4 times and got 3 Bulwark! I Went there 20 times, got one bulwark and for 10 times I got nothing. Oh, yes, that's random!

Feb 23, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17	#30
led-zep Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005	the drop rate is always lower for people who call Tombs 'The Underworld'

Feb 23, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42	#31
mickyo5 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: Princes Pack Profession: W/Mo	hi guy i have been playing this game for 4 months now. farming in north kryta and s/f. Looking for green sword superior vigor and superior absorbsion. i havent had any green dops yet and have in total only foung 5 gold runes. what am i doing wrong?

Feb 23, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06	#32
baz777 Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South East England Guild: Leader: Lady Hairy Armpits S[mell] Profession: E/	Well my luck is pretty consistent, in FOW I???m always lucky enough to pick up more dust than any other player in the team

Feb 23, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24	#33
quickmonty Ancient Windbreaker Join Date: May 2005	Random is as random does (Forrest Gump) If you toss a coin 20 times and 20 times it comes up heads, what are the odds that it will come up heads the next toss? > > > > > > > > ........................................... 50% Coins don't have a memory. It is random

Feb 23, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39	#36
Stealthy Trapper Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Guild: Knights Assassins [Kill] Profession: R/	Wow you play this game almost everyday since the day it comes out and you try to leave some insight to other players that think the game is out to get them. What do you get? People quoting you and coming up with moronic ideas why their drops suck and others don't. Seriously people even if there was a system that gave one person better drops than the other, someone would eventually figure it out( there was over a million copies of GW sold last year you know), and a-net would change it or nerf drops in all. Its the facts of life, some people get a better life than others. Just play the game and enjoy it. You are not going to get better drops if you carry a lucky rabbits foot or any other luck charm. One day you will get your share of ectos and another day someone else will get their share. Come on admin. this crying has gone on long enough. Please close this thread. Threads that go on and on with no factual information in them is probably why it takes ten minutes to open a page when we are on this forum.