Question about trading/traders - Guild Wars Forums

chaosincarnate87 · Jan 21, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

ok, so i suppose i have a simple question. and dont get me wrong im not QQ'ing about this or anything, but it just struck me as awkward today.

why is it that traders ask for an offer without including like a c/o or b/o or s/b or something?

then after making an offer on a low end of the market value, they refuse to even give a clue as to how much they want for the item/refuse to haggle the price at all, just a simple nty. and be on their way.

example: i was looking for a dhuum this morning, someone was spamming to sell, i offer 650e, got a nty and the dude wouldnt even tell me how much he wanted for it...

this seems very counterproductive to the whole trading process... its not like people are gonna immediately offer on the high end of the market value then get hustled over that value, or is the community really that dumb? becuase i could understand trying to get the maximum value for your item, but how can you get any sort of value out of the item without at least giving some sort of parameters for the trade?

and to clarify, it doesn't just happen on higher end items, ive had it happen on little trinket items too like stacks of superb charr carvings, insc. eternal shields, etc...

Raven Wing · Jan 21, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Some people are just not polite or clever. He could have said he wanted 850 and maybe you ended up trading for 750...(Note i dont know the actual value) or he could have demanded 850 and said no haggling, then you could take it or leave it .
Other reason can be that they hope to get a offer far better than market value from someone who dont know what the value is.
But yes, its pretty annoying.

tasha · Jan 21, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I think the basic idea of the "offer" is to see if you're going to offer over market price so they can make additional money from it. Once they realise that you aren't naive they stop talking to you. Alternatively they consider your offer so low that they don't see negotiation as being worthwhile.

chaosincarnate87 · Jan 21, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

i see... makes sense, the reason i always lowball people that ask for offers so bad is i kind of assume the same thing in reverse, that they got the item by chance and are too stupid to come up with a price... thanks folks

Wyndy · Jan 21, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20

The art of bartering is lost to most cultures.

REDdelver · Jan 21, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Eggsactly, the fact is traders want more for an item than they really want for it.

In my eyes its borderline scammish. Its that bad car salesman that tries to get you to buy things you dont want. Its that mechanic at the large dealership that works hand in hand with his managers to upsell everything that you dont need on your car fixed. If its not technically scamming, its just plain greed.....and greed leads to swindling.

They are looking for an offer from someone who doesnt know any better for more than what its really worth.

I was away from the game for over a year at one point. I wanted a tribal axe req 9 for the longest time. I had no clue the prices had dropped so dramatically, as I still thought they were 100k+ ecto. Saw one in chat for offer, I offered 100k+ 2 ecto which I thought was low at the time. The guy made the trade, said nothing of its real value, smiled and waved..... was worth only 20k at the time

Was it mainly my fault for not looking up the value ...YES. But traders like that lack honesty. I later had someone offer me the same type deal of an item. I quickly said Ill take 10k, cuz it wasnt worth 100k anymore.

imnotyourmother · Jan 21, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

well ^^^ poster has some of the reasoning right when I am SELLING its one thing and when I am BUYING its another..

Let me try and give you a prospective from people that have no gold.

If someone is buying and has no gold they will PM something like this.. You got that??? Oh how much you want for it.

- come back is well what's it worth

- I don't know but I want it what's your price?

- Let me check the wiki and see what they are selling for

- ok dude I will give you 3 winter green CC, 5 sm summoners 13,256g and 32 poppers for it

- Are you for real??

- DUDE I have wanted that since I saw my x-girlfriend running around with my buddy.

- what does that have to do with the price of wheat

- well I want it and you have it so sell it.

- F***G off you noob

- gheesh.. what was the price again???

And it there is no sale but worth a laugh.

So sometimes people do not know that the item is worth.

You should have asked What's the Price..

rokocoko · Jan 21, 2010, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosincarnate87

why is it that traders ask for an offer without including like a c/o or b/o or s/b or something?

Basically, traders trying to maximize their profit. Though there are situations when it's just someone who doesn't know the market price.

Shadowhaze · Jan 21, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Pretty much it boils down to what a person can get for an item. Usually they'll want as much as they can get.

I've sold things for less than their value, only to see the person I sold it to trying to resell it. XD It happens. Most of the time, I'm just glad to get my inventory cleared out...packrat too much. Some things I just hold on to (if I don't get at least minimal market value offers and I'm no price guru) and will try and sell later.

And as others have said, some will take advantages of people who don't know prices of things. I've read of people buying things like an unded grawl for a few k, then reselling for huge profit. Cases like that, I think it's rather poor of people not to tell what the things are worth, if they do in fact know. Close to scamming, if not, imo.

So in essence, it's all about money and greed.

Dzjudz · Jan 21, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

By the way, players in-game who state a c/o are usually full of poo.

Quaker · Jan 21, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosincarnate87

why is it that traders ask for an offer without including like a c/o or b/o or s/b or something?

Those terms would be for an auction. Much of the time people are just interested in selling an item, not getting involved in a bidding war.

Quote:

then after making an offer on a low end of the market value, they refuse to even give a clue as to how much they want for the item/refuse to haggle the price at all, just a simple nty.

Most people who are selling things are not "traders" or "merchants". They are just ordinary players who simply want to sell an item for a fair price. If you offer them a low-ball price they will simply say "no thank you" (nty). They are not interested in haggling or bargaining - particularly if they are not used to haggling over things.
And yes, admittedly, sometimes people are hoping that someone will offer something over market value.
But, also, (I've done this) people will not know the Current Market Value of an item, or only have a rough idea. But they figure if someone offers enough, it may be worth selling. They don't want to suggest a price for fear that the price they quote is too far from the CMV and will result in selling the item too cheaply, or scaring off potential buyers because it's too high.
Of course, there's also the possibility that you are not the only person trying to contact them. If you are a slow typer, it's a real PoB (pain in the butt) to have to keep answering some guy(s) who wants to low-ball you, while an actual customer is trying to ask you where you are or where you can meet.

Quote:

example: i was looking for a dhuum this morning, someone was spamming to sell, i offer 650e, got a nty and the dude wouldn't even tell me how much he wanted for it...

Yes, sometimes people can be rude. Sometimes, as I mentioned above, they are also talking to other people. Sometimes they just don't want to deal with some cheap-ass who wants to low-ball them (especially while trying to talk to someone else.)

So, my bottom line on all this is that you seem to be expecting anyone who wants to sell (or buy) something to be some sort of semi-professional marketer who knows the "real" value of every item, wants to haggle, and wants to give all their attention to you. The reality is far from that.

P.s. If you really want to buy or sell in a more "professional" or controlled manner, you should try using the buy/sell forums or the Auction here on Guru.
(instead of QQing in the forums

)

Anime Divine · Jan 21, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

so someone was selling lockpicks any amount. 1250 each. so i said could i buy XX lockpicks for 1200g and he said no. so i asked why not. so i spammed him for fun why not why not hellooo wanna sell me lockpicks. till he finally put me on ignore and said because your are noob haha. i could not send anything back cos of ignore but ohwell.

there are some bad traders out there... either say what you want for the itmen and buer should take it or leave it

Quaker · Jan 21, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Divine

so someone was selling lockpicks any amount. 1250 each. so i said could i buy XX lockpicks for 1200g and he said no. so i asked why not. so i spammed him for fun why not why not hellooo wanna sell me lockpicks. till he finally put me on ignore and said because your are noob haha. i could not send anything back cos of ignore but ohwell.

there are some bad traders out there... either say what you want for the itmen and buer should take it or leave it

Yes, and obviously there are some bad buyers out there too (like you, for example).
I'll answer your question for the lockpick seller - most of the people who sell lockpicks in quantity are buying the lockpicks from a merchant in a clan controlled outpost in Factions (I forget how much they pay for them). It's not worth his time to sell the lockpicks for less than 1250 (considering what he paid for them) and pretty much everyone else will happily buy them for 1250, without the grief.

So, in this case, you pretty much come off looking like an asshole.

Shadowhaze · Jan 21, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

People who are in an alliance that own a town can get picks for 1200g I think it was.

Anyhow, I've bought picks from people who just want to be rid of them for less than 1200g (for my own use).

But yes, some sellers/buyers are rather rude. Others are quite nice.

Kumu Honua · Jan 21, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

If I ask "How much?" and they respond "Offer" then I usually just ignore them. Waste of my time to talk to them as I know that they want more than it's worth.

chaosincarnate87 · Jan 21, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

P.s. If you really want to buy or sell in a more "professional" or controlled manner, you should try using the buy/sell forums or the Auction here on Guru.
(instead of QQing in the forums

)

prob 90% of my posts of the 300ish i have are all in the ventari section, this is actually one of the first times ive ventured out of ventari to post something elsewhere than riverside.

but i appreciate the posts guys whether they be positive or negative, just knowing im not the only one having to deal with these douchers in game.

Rocky Rockstar · Jan 21, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

i do this but only if the offer is so low that haggling wont be worthwile.

say i have X item and i want around 80e for it then someone offers 35e, iwont bother as they will only waste time

fires element · Jan 21, 2010, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

If I ask "How much?" and they respond "Offer" then I usually just ignore them. Waste of my time to talk to them as I know that they want more than it's worth.

i don't offer on things as well cause usually it will be some ridiculous amount and i realize that no matter what i offer unless its higher than market value they won't take it anyway

RedDog91 · Jan 21, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41

and while you're at it, some people say offer and then lie about it

example (item's value is 12k and the seller knows it):
seller "offer"
you "10k"
seller "lol, some1 already offered 20k and i turned them down"

if you don't know better, they will get you...so don't bother offering
i ask for a price twice and if they say "offer" both times, i ignore them

byteme! · Jan 22, 2010, 01:48 AM // 01:48

I always do this....

Seller: WTS ____ blade
Me: What is your asking price?
Seller: (usual response) OFFER!
Me: I asked you first
Seller: Make me an offer
Me: You still didn't answer MY QUESTION

At this point if they don't have an answer I move on. Sometimes the seller really doesn't have a clue what price to sell at which is a good sign for me. Other times they play ignorant to try and swindle a few extra bucks off me on top of market value. You just got to know who to deal with.

I pay close attention to who's who and what's what when I'm in Kamadan for example. People who you tend to see ALL THE TIME spamming WTB/WTS usually aren't the people you want to go for. The guys that camp Kamadan aka Power Traders are probably the last people you'll ever find a deal from. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS but they are few and far between. They are there to maximize their profits and you are too. Those 2 don't mix well. Having spent a good time in Kamadan myself I know there are certain people who I'll never deal with. Not because I don't like them or anything but because I know they are out to screw me over for an extra penny and I'm out to do the same. When it comes to trading virtual goods in an online game you can throw out the whole moral high ground idea if you want to get anywhere.

Best advice I can give is to do your research and pay attention to everything/everyone if you plan to start power trading

Jan 21, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06	#1
chaosincarnate87 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Behind You ;) Guild: DPR	Question about trading/traders ok, so i suppose i have a simple question. and dont get me wrong im not QQ'ing about this or anything, but it just struck me as awkward today. why is it that traders ask for an offer without including like a c/o or b/o or s/b or something? then after making an offer on a low end of the market value, they refuse to even give a clue as to how much they want for the item/refuse to haggle the price at all, just a simple nty. and be on their way. example: i was looking for a dhuum this morning, someone was spamming to sell, i offer 650e, got a nty and the dude wouldnt even tell me how much he wanted for it... this seems very counterproductive to the whole trading process... its not like people are gonna immediately offer on the high end of the market value then get hustled over that value, or is the community really that dumb? becuase i could understand trying to get the maximum value for your item, but how can you get any sort of value out of the item without at least giving some sort of parameters for the trade? and to clarify, it doesn't just happen on higher end items, ive had it happen on little trinket items too like stacks of superb charr carvings, insc. eternal shields, etc...

Jan 22, 2010, 01:48 AM // 01:48	#20
byteme! Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On Earth Profession: W/P	I always do this.... Seller: WTS ____ blade Me: What is your asking price? Seller: (usual response) OFFER! Me: I asked you first Seller: Make me an offer Me: You still didn't answer MY QUESTION At this point if they don't have an answer I move on. Sometimes the seller really doesn't have a clue what price to sell at which is a good sign for me. Other times they play ignorant to try and swindle a few extra bucks off me on top of market value. You just got to know who to deal with. I pay close attention to who's who and what's what when I'm in Kamadan for example. People who you tend to see ALL THE TIME spamming WTB/WTS usually aren't the people you want to go for. The guys that camp Kamadan aka Power Traders are probably the last people you'll ever find a deal from. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS but they are few and far between. They are there to maximize their profits and you are too. Those 2 don't mix well. Having spent a good time in Kamadan myself I know there are certain people who I'll never deal with. Not because I don't like them or anything but because I know they are out to screw me over for an extra penny and I'm out to do the same. When it comes to trading virtual goods in an online game you can throw out the whole moral high ground idea if you want to get anywhere. Best advice I can give is to do your research and pay attention to everything/everyone if you plan to start power trading Last edited by byteme!; Jan 22, 2010 at 01:58 AM // 01:58..

Jan 21, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17	#2
Raven Wing Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: The Imperial Guards of Istan [TIGI] Profession: N/	Some people are just not polite or clever. He could have said he wanted 850 and maybe you ended up trading for 750...(Note i dont know the actual value) or he could have demanded 850 and said no haggling, then you could take it or leave it . Other reason can be that they hope to get a offer far better than market value from someone who dont know what the value is. But yes, its pretty annoying.

Jan 21, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25	#3
tasha Auctions Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Guild: Mystic Spiral [MYST]	I think the basic idea of the "offer" is to see if you're going to offer over market price so they can make additional money from it. Once they realise that you aren't naive they stop talking to you. Alternatively they consider your offer so low that they don't see negotiation as being worthwhile.

Jan 21, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30	#4
chaosincarnate87 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Behind You ;) Guild: DPR	i see... makes sense, the reason i always lowball people that ask for offers so bad is i kind of assume the same thing in reverse, that they got the item by chance and are too stupid to come up with a price... thanks folks

Jan 21, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20	#5
Wyndy Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: in the know Guild: Chronic Chaos Profession: N/Me	The art of bartering is lost to most cultures.

Jan 21, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23	#6
REDdelver Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2007 Guild: Girls Pee Pee When They See [ME] Profession: N/Mo	Eggsactly, the fact is traders want more for an item than they really want for it. In my eyes its borderline scammish. Its that bad car salesman that tries to get you to buy things you dont want. Its that mechanic at the large dealership that works hand in hand with his managers to upsell everything that you dont need on your car fixed. If its not technically scamming, its just plain greed.....and greed leads to swindling. They are looking for an offer from someone who doesnt know any better for more than what its really worth. I was away from the game for over a year at one point. I wanted a tribal axe req 9 for the longest time. I had no clue the prices had dropped so dramatically, as I still thought they were 100k+ ecto. Saw one in chat for offer, I offered 100k+ 2 ecto which I thought was low at the time. The guy made the trade, said nothing of its real value, smiled and waved..... was worth only 20k at the time Was it mainly my fault for not looking up the value ...YES. But traders like that lack honesty. I later had someone offer me the same type deal of an item. I quickly said Ill take 10k, cuz it wasnt worth 100k anymore.

Jan 21, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40	#7
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	well ^^^ poster has some of the reasoning right when I am SELLING its one thing and when I am BUYING its another.. Let me try and give you a prospective from people that have no gold. If someone is buying and has no gold they will PM something like this.. You got that??? Oh how much you want for it. - come back is well what's it worth - I don't know but I want it what's your price? - Let me check the wiki and see what they are selling for - ok dude I will give you 3 winter green CC, 5 sm summoners 13,256g and 32 poppers for it - Are you for real?? - DUDE I have wanted that since I saw my x-girlfriend running around with my buddy. - what does that have to do with the price of wheat - well I want it and you have it so sell it. - F***G off you noob - gheesh.. what was the price again??? And it there is no sale but worth a laugh. So sometimes people do not know that the item is worth. You should have asked What's the Price..

Jan 21, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12	#9
Shadowhaze Nothing, tra la la? Join Date: Oct 2007	Pretty much it boils down to what a person can get for an item. Usually they'll want as much as they can get. I've sold things for less than their value, only to see the person I sold it to trying to resell it. XD It happens. Most of the time, I'm just glad to get my inventory cleared out...packrat too much. Some things I just hold on to (if I don't get at least minimal market value offers and I'm no price guru) and will try and sell later. And as others have said, some will take advantages of people who don't know prices of things. I've read of people buying things like an unded grawl for a few k, then reselling for huge profit. Cases like that, I think it's rather poor of people not to tell what the things are worth, if they do in fact know. Close to scamming, if not, imo. So in essence, it's all about money and greed.

Jan 21, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20	#10
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	By the way, players in-game who state a c/o are usually full of poo.

Jan 21, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50	#12
Anime Divine Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Nov 2007 Profession: W/	so someone was selling lockpicks any amount. 1250 each. so i said could i buy XX lockpicks for 1200g and he said no. so i asked why not. so i spammed him for fun why not why not hellooo wanna sell me lockpicks. till he finally put me on ignore and said because your are noob haha. i could not send anything back cos of ignore but ohwell. there are some bad traders out there... either say what you want for the itmen and buer should take it or leave it

Jan 21, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#14
Shadowhaze Nothing, tra la la? Join Date: Oct 2007	People who are in an alliance that own a town can get picks for 1200g I think it was. Anyhow, I've bought picks from people who just want to be rid of them for less than 1200g (for my own use). But yes, some sellers/buyers are rather rude. Others are quite nice.

Jan 21, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33	#15
Kumu Honua Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2008	If I ask "How much?" and they respond "Offer" then I usually just ignore them. Waste of my time to talk to them as I know that they want more than it's worth.

Jan 21, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30	#17
Rocky Rockstar Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: W/	i do this but only if the offer is so low that haggling wont be worthwile. say i have X item and i want around 80e for it then someone offers 35e, iwont bother as they will only waste time

Jan 21, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41	#19
RedDog91 Desert Nomad Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Farming for Nick gifts Profession: R/	and while you're at it, some people say offer and then lie about it example (item's value is 12k and the seller knows it): seller "offer" you "10k" seller "lol, some1 already offered 20k and i turned them down" if you don't know better, they will get you...so don't bother offering i ask for a price twice and if they say "offer" both times, i ignore them